Upgrade times
02-18-2022 | 09:45 AM
#1181
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,548
Likes: 62
I want to address this common refrain any time someone talks about the quick upgrade times at Delta (or UAL or FedEx etc..)
"Well sure, if you want to be based in New York and be on reserve for the next decade."
(Or Newark... or if you want to fly nights...)
It's about having the choice.
Here, our least desirable (and therefore most junior) domicile is nearly impossible to commute to from anyplace east of Denver and takes upwards of 11 years to upgrade to.
At Delta, their least desirable (and therefore most junior) domicile is served by 3 airports and 40 flights a day from just about anywhere in the Western Hemisphere. (Ok, I'm exaggerating a bit but you get the idea). There's also more crashpads than you can shake a stick at and free or low cost transportation to and from them. I've been based there at other airlines. Is it great? No, at least not for me. But it is for somebody. Pilots who live there or want to commute.
For those pilots the CHOICE of a junior upgrade is far better than a decade long slog. So the dismissal of that choice by many of our pilots just because of the domicile rings hollow. We have an equally unattractive domicile (or worse) and no choice whatsoever.
Yeah yeah, I know. "Delta's hiring. Don't let the door hit you on the butt on your way out."
Thanks Cap'n.
"Well sure, if you want to be based in New York and be on reserve for the next decade."
(Or Newark... or if you want to fly nights...)
It's about having the choice.
Here, our least desirable (and therefore most junior) domicile is nearly impossible to commute to from anyplace east of Denver and takes upwards of 11 years to upgrade to.
At Delta, their least desirable (and therefore most junior) domicile is served by 3 airports and 40 flights a day from just about anywhere in the Western Hemisphere. (Ok, I'm exaggerating a bit but you get the idea). There's also more crashpads than you can shake a stick at and free or low cost transportation to and from them. I've been based there at other airlines. Is it great? No, at least not for me. But it is for somebody. Pilots who live there or want to commute.
For those pilots the CHOICE of a junior upgrade is far better than a decade long slog. So the dismissal of that choice by many of our pilots just because of the domicile rings hollow. We have an equally unattractive domicile (or worse) and no choice whatsoever.
Yeah yeah, I know. "Delta's hiring. Don't let the door hit you on the butt on your way out."
Thanks Cap'n.
the sooner those guys retire the better.
The point is about career earning potential. The shorter the upgrade, the greater the career earnings. With the power of compound investing it can mean much more.
02-18-2022 | 02:00 PM
#1183
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,264
Likes: 0
SWA exceptionalism is one of the primary reasons we have accepted less for decades. It’s also likely to be a main contributor to why we will likely end up settling for less again this time around.
IMO, it would be fascinating for researchers to delve into the psychological, social, and demographic dynamics that drive SWA exceptionalism. I’d love to read the results of that study. I’m sure there’s some deeply subconscious sh** going on.
02-18-2022 | 04:38 PM
#1184
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,553
Likes: 396
There are two camps that fall into SWA exceptionalism.
A. Guys that couldn't get on with a real airline in the 90s and got hired by a growing but still small Texas 737 airline. They basically fell head first into the luckiest bit of timing in aviation history as the industry crashed around them while SWA grew by leaps and bounds. They attribute this to their warrior spirit and fun luvving attitude and it certainly has nothing to do with luck or timing. They never sat reserve, upgraded in 3-5 years, and think SWAPA is being too militant right now.
B. Guys who got hired in the lost decade. They are just glad to be here since they were almost selling handies in a mens room around the corner from their house. Herb probably went to their new hire lunch and they definitely want to keep "the culture" alive.
As our ranks grow, their ranks shrink. I got pretty freaked out when TA1 almost passed. I actually started getting my resume' in order. That won't happen again at this company. Karl and friends are at the mercy of market forces. There has never been a time in all of history that pilots have had so much on their side in negotiations. You cannot fight economics. You just can't.
A. Guys that couldn't get on with a real airline in the 90s and got hired by a growing but still small Texas 737 airline. They basically fell head first into the luckiest bit of timing in aviation history as the industry crashed around them while SWA grew by leaps and bounds. They attribute this to their warrior spirit and fun luvving attitude and it certainly has nothing to do with luck or timing. They never sat reserve, upgraded in 3-5 years, and think SWAPA is being too militant right now.
B. Guys who got hired in the lost decade. They are just glad to be here since they were almost selling handies in a mens room around the corner from their house. Herb probably went to their new hire lunch and they definitely want to keep "the culture" alive.
As our ranks grow, their ranks shrink. I got pretty freaked out when TA1 almost passed. I actually started getting my resume' in order. That won't happen again at this company. Karl and friends are at the mercy of market forces. There has never been a time in all of history that pilots have had so much on their side in negotiations. You cannot fight economics. You just can't.
02-18-2022 | 05:43 PM
#1185
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,264
Likes: 0
There are two camps that fall into SWA exceptionalism.
A. Guys that couldn't get on with a real airline in the 90s and got hired by a growing but still small Texas 737 airline. They basically fell head first into the luckiest bit of timing in aviation history as the industry crashed around them while SWA grew by leaps and bounds. They attribute this to their warrior spirit and fun luvving attitude and it certainly has nothing to do with luck or timing. They never sat reserve, upgraded in 3-5 years, and think SWAPA is being too militant right now.
B. Guys who got hired in the lost decade. They are just glad to be here since they were almost selling handies in a mens room around the corner from their house. Herb probably went to their new hire lunch and they definitely want to keep "the culture" alive.
As our ranks grow, their ranks shrink. I got pretty freaked out when TA1 almost passed. I actually started getting my resume' in order. That won't happen again at this company. Karl and friends are at the mercy of market forces. There has never been a time in all of history that pilots have had so much on their side in negotiations. You cannot fight economics. You just can't.
A. Guys that couldn't get on with a real airline in the 90s and got hired by a growing but still small Texas 737 airline. They basically fell head first into the luckiest bit of timing in aviation history as the industry crashed around them while SWA grew by leaps and bounds. They attribute this to their warrior spirit and fun luvving attitude and it certainly has nothing to do with luck or timing. They never sat reserve, upgraded in 3-5 years, and think SWAPA is being too militant right now.
B. Guys who got hired in the lost decade. They are just glad to be here since they were almost selling handies in a mens room around the corner from their house. Herb probably went to their new hire lunch and they definitely want to keep "the culture" alive.
As our ranks grow, their ranks shrink. I got pretty freaked out when TA1 almost passed. I actually started getting my resume' in order. That won't happen again at this company. Karl and friends are at the mercy of market forces. There has never been a time in all of history that pilots have had so much on their side in negotiations. You cannot fight economics. You just can't.
OTOH, I don’t have as much faith as you do that the settling-for-less won’t happen again. I hope you’re right and I’m wrong but I’m pretty confident our pilot group will manage to seize defeat from the jaws of victory - we will fail to hand the ball to Marshawn Lynch on 2nd-and-goal from the New England one-yard line with 20 seconds remaining to win the Super Bowl. No, instead we will do some inexplicably dumb sh** like pass the ball for an interception and defeat.
Seahawks fans all thought Belichick and Brady were at the mercy of the best running back in the league. They all thought the confetti machine was seconds away from spraying out clouds of blue and green. But Pete Carroll had other ideas.
Don’t underestimate the blinding shortsightedness of this pilot group when going up against the likes of FordHarrison and SWA’s labor relations department. Charlie Brown never did manage to catch onto Lucy’s shenanigans.
02-18-2022 | 05:57 PM
#1186
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 508
Likes: 0
From: 737 CA
There are two camps that fall into SWA exceptionalism.
A. Guys that couldn't get on with a real airline in the 90s and got hired by a growing but still small Texas 737 airline. They basically fell head first into the luckiest bit of timing in aviation history as the industry crashed around them while SWA grew by leaps and bounds. They attribute this to their warrior spirit and fun luvving attitude and it certainly has nothing to do with luck or timing. They never sat reserve, upgraded in 3-5 years, and think SWAPA is being too militant right now.
B. Guys who got hired in the lost decade. They are just glad to be here since they were almost selling handies in a mens room around the corner from their house. Herb probably went to their new hire lunch and they definitely want to keep "the culture" alive.
As our ranks grow, their ranks shrink. I got pretty freaked out when TA1 almost passed. I actually started getting my resume' in order. That won't happen again at this company. Karl and friends are at the mercy of market forces. There has never been a time in all of history that pilots have had so much on their side in negotiations. You cannot fight economics. You just can't.
A. Guys that couldn't get on with a real airline in the 90s and got hired by a growing but still small Texas 737 airline. They basically fell head first into the luckiest bit of timing in aviation history as the industry crashed around them while SWA grew by leaps and bounds. They attribute this to their warrior spirit and fun luvving attitude and it certainly has nothing to do with luck or timing. They never sat reserve, upgraded in 3-5 years, and think SWAPA is being too militant right now.
B. Guys who got hired in the lost decade. They are just glad to be here since they were almost selling handies in a mens room around the corner from their house. Herb probably went to their new hire lunch and they definitely want to keep "the culture" alive.
As our ranks grow, their ranks shrink. I got pretty freaked out when TA1 almost passed. I actually started getting my resume' in order. That won't happen again at this company. Karl and friends are at the mercy of market forces. There has never been a time in all of history that pilots have had so much on their side in negotiations. You cannot fight economics. You just can't.
Maybe because we were hired around the same timeframe so we see things through a similar lens , but this is an excellent post . Zap and Lebrowski are just noise.
02-18-2022 | 06:19 PM
#1188
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 485
Likes: 2
From: American Airlines Brake Pad Replacement Technician
Prediction: The dry cleaning/barcolounger/free parking contract redline markup and market offer+10% time value of money recession around the corner flag tie me me me's are going to outnumber and out vote the Contract rewrite crowd, the BOD will cave as the survey data will show the Pilot will isn't there to do much more than what Carl's Jr offers.
Then we can all get back to the great work of exceptional ground time, using our god given right of straight bidding on unrigged trips, decade + upgrades, 17 years on property to hold summer vacay, and epic tribalism.
Then we can all get back to the great work of exceptional ground time, using our god given right of straight bidding on unrigged trips, decade + upgrades, 17 years on property to hold summer vacay, and epic tribalism.
02-18-2022 | 06:49 PM
#1189
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,264
Likes: 0
But I’m afraid Caveman is right on the money. I’m afraid what myself, Caveman, Zap, and others are saying is backed up by five decades of history. That kind of gravitational pull is danged near impossible to break away from.
And the 1,221? Already subsumed by those who are thrilled with the company standing for their bodily autonomy. Besides, the company didn’t even actually furlough anyone.
02-18-2022 | 08:20 PM
#1190
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
From: Pilot
Look, I get your bit is to be doom and gloom no matter the situation, but you're wrong. As a card-carrying member of the 1221 club, I think you're underestimating the effect of the John Deere letters right before Christmas. And I'm not just speaking for myself.
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