Serious thoughts about leaving.
11-20-2021, 07:23 AM
#111
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 45
Originally Posted by WHACKMASTER
Bologna. Most senior FOs are NOT working as hard as junior captains. They just know how to play the system and are getting paid a high TFP/day ratio.
I’ll bet you a six pack of Deja Blu that the number bypassing upgrade will not drop below 600 at any point.
I’ll bet you a six pack of Deja Blu that the number bypassing upgrade will not drop below 600 at any point.
So I took the Top 10 FO's and Bottom 10 Captains and took a look at a jr. base. I used Oct 2021 for the data. I discarded to top tfp pilot. I did not use pilots with more than 1 week vacation, excessive training (ie more than recurrent) and some pilots had boards blocked. I used top pay for FO and CA. Here is the average.
FO
TFP - 127.8
Days Worked - 14.8
RON's - 8.7
Pay/mo - $21,976.74
Pay/yr - 263,720.86
CA
TFP - 125.7
Days Worked - 15.9
RON's - 8.9
Pay/mo - $30,869.03
Pay/yr - 370,428.4
11-20-2021, 07:39 AM
#112
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2020
Posts: 128
Originally Posted by GearAlarm
On that note, I was curious.
So I took the Top 10 FO's and Bottom 10 Captains and took a look at a jr. base. I used Oct 2021 for the data. I discarded to top tfp pilot. I did not use pilots with more than 1 week vacation, excessive training (ie more than recurrent) and some pilots had boards blocked. I used top pay for FO and CA. Here is the average.
FO
TFP - 127.8
Days Worked - 14.8
RON's - 8.7
Pay/mo - $21,976.74
Pay/yr - 263,720.86
CA
TFP - 125.7
Days Worked - 15.9
RON's - 8.9
Pay/mo - $30,869.03
Pay/yr - 370,428.4
So I took the Top 10 FO's and Bottom 10 Captains and took a look at a jr. base. I used Oct 2021 for the data. I discarded to top tfp pilot. I did not use pilots with more than 1 week vacation, excessive training (ie more than recurrent) and some pilots had boards blocked. I used top pay for FO and CA. Here is the average.
FO
TFP - 127.8
Days Worked - 14.8
RON's - 8.7
Pay/mo - $21,976.74
Pay/yr - 263,720.86
CA
TFP - 125.7
Days Worked - 15.9
RON's - 8.9
Pay/mo - $30,869.03
Pay/yr - 370,428.4
You bypass for QOL and upgrade for money. Simple as that. His numbers clearly indicate that. 106K is a big number but is it worth the QOL issues? We are about to find out with the 500 that will upgrade soon. Yes it will only be 500 or so this year, capacity constraints are a mathematical reality that even the Kool Aid drinkers will find out about soon enough.
11-20-2021, 11:14 AM
#113
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,256
Originally Posted by LUVisLost
You bypass for QOL and upgrade for money. Simple as that.
https://viewfromthewing.com/american...lked-by-pilot/
11-20-2021, 01:14 PM
#114
At your mom's house
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: cpt 737
Posts: 2,659
Originally Posted by at6d
Hoover, aren’t we similar seniority? I just started year 7. You’re thinking end of next year? I keep hearing similar stuff lately. Maybe you’re right.
According to myseniority.com the most junior captain is 1197 above me, with 813 FOs that can hold it.
According to myseniority.com the most junior captain is 1197 above me, with 813 FOs that can hold it.
I wont commute and I need to be a line holder before I'll upgrade for flexibility for reasons so I wont take first available but I did just go change my standing bid so I wont accidentally upgrade since I never look at that thing.
11-20-2021, 03:40 PM
#116
Banned
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Position: 3+ hour sit in the ATL
Posts: 1,982
Originally Posted by at6d
Where are you in seniority?
If you are starting year 7 at SWA like me, west coast upgrades here may happen sooner than at Delta. I’m 46 years old and feel it wouldn’t be a good deal for me to leave now, especially if there are an additional 1000 pilots under me at the end of next year. For me, I usually get within my first 10-20 bid choices, drive to work, live where I like it for now, etc.
For WN pilots at year 1 through 5 it may be a very different opinion.
In any case, a lateralish move is never to be taken lightly as things can change for the worse very quickly in this industry
For me, I’m staying put.
If you are starting year 7 at SWA like me, west coast upgrades here may happen sooner than at Delta. I’m 46 years old and feel it wouldn’t be a good deal for me to leave now, especially if there are an additional 1000 pilots under me at the end of next year. For me, I usually get within my first 10-20 bid choices, drive to work, live where I like it for now, etc.
For WN pilots at year 1 through 5 it may be a very different opinion.
In any case, a lateralish move is never to be taken lightly as things can change for the worse very quickly in this industry
For me, I’m staying put.
Of course our NB schedules are brutal. Many, like me, are going to sit it out as Wide body FO until we get enough seniority to slide to the left seat in WB or NB left seat with very, very good seniority. INt'l flying at DAL is like being in another airline. Really it is.
ROFF, The best thing about this biz is choices. If you are not happy where you are at, maybe a move is in order. I don't think anyone on APC is going to change your mind. Best of luck to you in the future whatever you decide.
11-21-2021, 06:50 AM
#119
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 459
Appreciate the constructive input. Maybe I just have a case of the green grass envy. Or maybe my ambition is kicking in. Just really hard to ignore the benefits of seniority progression that we lack and a few other things. One thing we don’t lack tho are great people to fly with. I really enjoy flying with 99% of the people here. And on rare occasion you get a kernal, well, it’s kinda fun to mess with them.
11-21-2021, 07:09 AM
#120
Furloughed Again?!
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Boeing 737
Posts: 4,796
Originally Posted by ROFF
Appreciate the constructive input. Maybe I just have a case of the green grass envy. Or maybe my ambition is kicking in. Just really hard to ignore the benefits of seniority progression that we lack and a few other things. One thing we don’t lack tho are great people to fly with. I really enjoy flying with 99% of the people here. And on rare occasion you get a kernal, well, it’s kinda fun to mess with them.
I'm more a 79%, but better than average odds that I'm the other 21%.
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