Serious thoughts about leaving.
11-18-2021, 07:42 AM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 160
There are 19,000 pilots flying at regional airlines. The military also has 19,000 pilots. There are probably an equal number fractionals, charters, small 135’s, and other niche markets. There a total of 103,879 commercial pilots in the US.
Getting to ANY of the big four is and will likely always be a coveted position for nearly all of these folks at some point in their career. Which ones the best, again it depends on your personal circumstance and then secondly the contract, and third comes the upgrade time in my opinion.
Most of us at SW at year five make over $200k by year five. That is more than 90% of the households in the US. I would just say, that quality of life is far more important than the money if you are in the top 10% of wage earners. Jockeying for the best career, should be a lot more about qol than money in my opinion.
Anyone in this industry will tell you seniority is king. If you are looking to leave any time after two years in a hiring boom (which is what we are in) you better study your options VERY closely. A wrong move will cost you dearly.
Over the last ten years, each of the top four have been considered “THE” place to go for a period of time. If history is any teacher, that will occur again in the next ten years. My advice is take the first major that calls and settle in for the long haul with the best one that fits you within two years. If you don’t live in base at SW and can with another carrier, pack your bags if you can. Other than that, if you are outside of the two year window, your seniority will likely trump any benefit in the greener pastures.
Getting to ANY of the big four is and will likely always be a coveted position for nearly all of these folks at some point in their career. Which ones the best, again it depends on your personal circumstance and then secondly the contract, and third comes the upgrade time in my opinion.
Most of us at SW at year five make over $200k by year five. That is more than 90% of the households in the US. I would just say, that quality of life is far more important than the money if you are in the top 10% of wage earners. Jockeying for the best career, should be a lot more about qol than money in my opinion.
Anyone in this industry will tell you seniority is king. If you are looking to leave any time after two years in a hiring boom (which is what we are in) you better study your options VERY closely. A wrong move will cost you dearly.
Over the last ten years, each of the top four have been considered “THE” place to go for a period of time. If history is any teacher, that will occur again in the next ten years. My advice is take the first major that calls and settle in for the long haul with the best one that fits you within two years. If you don’t live in base at SW and can with another carrier, pack your bags if you can. Other than that, if you are outside of the two year window, your seniority will likely trump any benefit in the greener pastures.
11-18-2021, 07:48 AM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 299
When I pulled up this thread, one of the “related threads” at the bottom from 2014 was “Leave FDX for a legacy”. 5 years ago when I started at SWA, United was beating doctors and killing small animals in overheads. Denver was a years long wait to get in and had no WB flying. Things change on a dime in this industry. Just because that FedEx guy hired three years ago can hold WB captain doesn’t mean today’s hire will ever hold it.
It’s a gamble. At least you can count on is retirements. Until you can’t.
It’s a gamble. At least you can count on is retirements. Until you can’t.
11-18-2021, 08:19 AM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2020
Posts: 128
Originally Posted by Crockrocket95
Cincy or MSU fan?
11-18-2021, 09:11 AM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 180
Originally Posted by LUVisLost
How can you have 1 loss teams ranked higher than undefeated teams? The SOS argument is total BS because a loss is a loss no matter what. OSU loses to OR at home and somehow is in the top 4. A loss at home should be an automatic DQ. AL loses and it doesn’t seem to matter. It’s like ESPN is gerrymandering the playoff…NO they wouldn’t do that to make sure the SEC and BIGTEN have an almost lock on it.
11-18-2021, 09:49 AM
#66
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 94
Originally Posted by StayFrosty
I’m a 5 year guy and won’t lie, thoughts have crossed my mind. I think I’m on the back side of the curve and it’s not financially prudent to start over (nor can I afford to be a new hire again). Also this industry is fickle and can change on you like the runways in Denver and what’s great yesterday or today might not be tomorrow. This is a long game with no fundamentals to help you make decisions.
I had great expectations for leadership to bring us out of the pandemic, 9/11 style. That didn’t happen. I never would have imagined they would look inward and get this funky with its own people. We fizzled on the pandemic rebound and we showed our people they aren’t number one. Awful and no excuse!
That’s done so now is the time to rethink and rebuild. Will it be done? How will new leadership be? Will relations change? When will we get an industry leading contract? When will we have answers on growth and a future beyond the B737? When will we update a very stale product and poor service? These are but a few questions any new hire (and employee) has to ask. SWA wants everyone to feel that they they are lucky to be here. Does SWA feel lucky that I’m here? How about if you are?
So how about some positives? I’m happy at work. I enjoy the time spent with pilots I work with. I enjoy the conversations, insights, and sometimes differing opinions. I’m paid well based on the amount of flying I do, which is greater than my line by a good margin (yes I try to be smart). I have what I consider a good amount of days off and a healthy QOL with family, hobbies, and outside activities. When I’m off, I’m off! I’ve never missed an important day, holiday or vacation with family which means the world to me.
I guess what I’m trying to say, I’m still more happy than not happy. Could I be “better off” elsewhere? Possibly. We could have another “once in a lifetime” black swan event and I could end up being the smartest guy in the room. Anyone good at tarot cards? I really hope we make this place great again! I’m keeping the faith in my peers and SWAPA that this place will be made great.
What amount of money or days off makes it worth it? I’m not sure of the answers but anyone is invited to my porch at 65 and we can compare notes over a beer then!
Happy to answer questions privately if it helps anyone make a decision.
Fly safe everyone!
I had great expectations for leadership to bring us out of the pandemic, 9/11 style. That didn’t happen. I never would have imagined they would look inward and get this funky with its own people. We fizzled on the pandemic rebound and we showed our people they aren’t number one. Awful and no excuse!
That’s done so now is the time to rethink and rebuild. Will it be done? How will new leadership be? Will relations change? When will we get an industry leading contract? When will we have answers on growth and a future beyond the B737? When will we update a very stale product and poor service? These are but a few questions any new hire (and employee) has to ask. SWA wants everyone to feel that they they are lucky to be here. Does SWA feel lucky that I’m here? How about if you are?
So how about some positives? I’m happy at work. I enjoy the time spent with pilots I work with. I enjoy the conversations, insights, and sometimes differing opinions. I’m paid well based on the amount of flying I do, which is greater than my line by a good margin (yes I try to be smart). I have what I consider a good amount of days off and a healthy QOL with family, hobbies, and outside activities. When I’m off, I’m off! I’ve never missed an important day, holiday or vacation with family which means the world to me.
I guess what I’m trying to say, I’m still more happy than not happy. Could I be “better off” elsewhere? Possibly. We could have another “once in a lifetime” black swan event and I could end up being the smartest guy in the room. Anyone good at tarot cards? I really hope we make this place great again! I’m keeping the faith in my peers and SWAPA that this place will be made great.
What amount of money or days off makes it worth it? I’m not sure of the answers but anyone is invited to my porch at 65 and we can compare notes over a beer then!
Happy to answer questions privately if it helps anyone make a decision.
Fly safe everyone!
Its a state of mind, not a destination.
11-18-2021, 10:30 AM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 751
Originally Posted by LUVisLost
How can you have 1 loss teams ranked higher than undefeated teams? The SOS argument is total BS because a loss is a loss no matter what. OSU loses to OR at home and somehow is in the top 4. A loss at home should be an automatic DQ. AL loses and it doesn’t seem to matter. It’s like ESPN is gerrymandering the playoff…NO they wouldn’t do that to make sure the SEC and BIGTEN have an almost lock on it.
SEC, don't even get me started on the homers... one of my MAIN gripes with the SEC is scheduling SUPER WEAK non conference not even D1 programs at the end of the season... I don't get it. Its like, lets have a fake bye week at the end of season... and bolster our wins. Ugh...
11-18-2021, 11:24 AM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,445
Interesting thread. There is a lot of good thought here and a lot of false comparisons and faulty reasoning.
Yes, SWA is the current class idiot, sitting in the post Covid corner wearing the dunce hat. This too shall pass, however.
Leaving here for financial reasons after year 4 is a dicey proposition. You may be able to make it work on a spreadsheet, but I doubt the juice would be worth the squeeze numbers wise.
I am fairly senior in my base/seat and enjoy a great quality of life. I try to hit 140 every month, but it's a target, not a must do. I find that's my sweet spot and can normally achieve it without much in the way of extra effort.
Here's the thing, everyone's situation is different. If what you want in life isn't at SWA, then you should probably consider leaving. Most of my life's ambitions are outside of work, though, so I am going with the known quantity and staying put. Even if I never upgrade, which I don't think is going to be anywhere close to the case, I count myself extremely fortunate to be where I am.
Now, don't mistake that life philosophy for a soft stance on the company or what we deserve as pilots at a major airline. I am not ok with where we are now or where things appear to be heading. This company needs a turnaround in a big way. A good start would be HQ returning to work on January 1st.
Yes, SWA is the current class idiot, sitting in the post Covid corner wearing the dunce hat. This too shall pass, however.
Leaving here for financial reasons after year 4 is a dicey proposition. You may be able to make it work on a spreadsheet, but I doubt the juice would be worth the squeeze numbers wise.
I am fairly senior in my base/seat and enjoy a great quality of life. I try to hit 140 every month, but it's a target, not a must do. I find that's my sweet spot and can normally achieve it without much in the way of extra effort.
Here's the thing, everyone's situation is different. If what you want in life isn't at SWA, then you should probably consider leaving. Most of my life's ambitions are outside of work, though, so I am going with the known quantity and staying put. Even if I never upgrade, which I don't think is going to be anywhere close to the case, I count myself extremely fortunate to be where I am.
Now, don't mistake that life philosophy for a soft stance on the company or what we deserve as pilots at a major airline. I am not ok with where we are now or where things appear to be heading. This company needs a turnaround in a big way. A good start would be HQ returning to work on January 1st.
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