Originally Posted by Lewbronski

Cyio,

As I explained to RJS, a discussion about the RLA and how it could be used this cycle is entirely academic at this point. This TA will be ratified.

Having said that, under the RLA, a mediator only has so much power to hold a labor group in mediation even if our demands "seem extremely harsh to the other side" or are of a nature "that a neutral party may consider `hard'." Even "exorbitantly" sized proposals and/or ones that are "obstinate and unyielding" ares not a violation of the RLA and especially after the number of days in mediation exceeds the average, not a condition upon which a mediator may lawfully keep a dispute in mediation indefinitely. For a mediator to lock a dispute in mediation when no or little progress is being made solely on the basis of the size of a party's demands, particularly after surpassing the average number of days in mediation, risks a determination being made that the NMB has "[continued] mediation on a basis that is completely and patently arbitary and for a period that is completely and patently unreasonable."

A mediator can't just do what they want "forever" if we know what we are doing. I could go into more detail on what I mean by "if we know what we are doing," but I've been banging this drum for I don't know how long now. People prefer to believe what their buddies tell them in the endless game of telephone that we prefer to play instead of actually learning the facts. That's not directed at you, btw.

Also, the timing of the SAV didn't really matter that much. It was the timing of the filing for mediation that was, IMO, an enormous and unrecoverable error.

As far as what the other airlines have agreed to this cycle, it doesn't bind us in any way other than creating the impression in our own minds that it does. If you'd like, I could also go into the deep-dive analysis on why that is the case. But, honestly, I'm getting tired of banging my head against the wall. That also is not directed at you.

As far as WB rates go, I'm not sure I know what you mean by that. You could mean the rates themselves or career compensation or something else. As you know, though, a contract is about much more than simple rates. Without more clarity on what you meant, I'll interpret your assertion as saying that you don't think achieving a substantially better overall TA was realisitc. I'd disagree with you in the context of whether or not that was achievable. It was. I'd agree with you in the context of whether or not this pilot group could get past all of the myths and FUD about the RLA process to ever drive toward a goal like that. That, quite obviously, was unrealistic.

Originally Posted by MudhammedCJ

Clearly, you're talking out your a$$ again. Just like always. You have zero idea what I've watched or read. For your information, I read the TA cover to cover and watched the vids.

There is no way we shouldn't be the highest paid narrow body pilots on the planet. (Besides UPS I guess since they only have one pay rate). I chose this airline due to it's success. And worked damn hard to get here. I'm not interested in relying on soft pay language that is intended to keep the company from rerouting us and stopping that very pay. And I'm not interested in over a dozen instances of meet and discuss type language. This rewrite was meant to get rid of all such ambiguous language.

And yes, I've had catering in a previous life. Some was great. Some sucked. If it were up to me, I'd rely on a concept called contract language to get what I wanted. Maybe you've heard of it.

As far as disability goes... You seem hell bent to keep bringing that up like it isn't going to be in TA2 or something. Big plans? I know you're good at gaming the system.

Originally Posted by RJSAviator76

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Originally Posted by Cyio

I said the wrong thing, you are correct I meant mediation, apologies for that.

I was specifically talking about the rate itself because that’s what so many are hung up on.


Their point was how long do you expect the families to wait on those items so we can potentially earn gains in other areas. At some point the small gains don’t outweigh the time lost.

Originally Posted by mulcher

Sad thing is SWApull failed the pilot group. Once again!

Originally Posted by mulcher

Sad thing is SWApull failed the pilot group. Once again!

Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan

Guess we’ll just have to wipe our tears with dollar bills from that six figure bonus. 😉

Originally Posted by Lewbronski

The writing was very clearly on the wall once we sailed past about the 18-month point (accounting for a pandemic delay and waiting for the "right" mediator) without filing for mediation. And really, we could have and should have filed for mediation earlier than that even in light of covid and a desire to be assigned a "good" mediator.

Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan

Guess we’ll just have to wipe our tears with dollar bills from that six figure bonus. 😉

Originally Posted by mulcher

Sad thing is SWApull failed the pilot group. Once again!

Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan

Not soft pay so much in the traditional sense. I just believe given their utter failure to run a clean schedule if there’s a drop of rain or a snowflake anywhere in the Western Hemisphere, that LCO and pay multiples are going to result in some outrageous monthly TFPs for the pilot group.