I think you are talking about a trip rig, or actually a true minimum day not averaging.

Trip averaging is why crews from other bases spend the night in a base to do the former turns from that base. FLL crews in ORD doing RSW turns, for example.

 

Can you explain further on the trip averaging and why it changes the overnights? Just asking

 

For example:
FLL-ORD-FLL= 3.5 each way for 7 hrs total.
ORD-RSW-ORD= 3.25 each way for 6.5 total.
If it was a turn the crew would get 7 (or 6.5) hrs for the day. If they did it 3 days in a row they would credit 21 (19.5) hrs.

What is happening now is a 3 day trip for the FLL crew:
Day 1: FLL-ORD for 3.5
Day 2: ORD-RSW-ORD for 6.5
Day 3: ORD-FLL for 3.5
total 13.5 hrs for 3 days of flying because we have no true min day, only trip averaging.

All they have to do is keep the rotation of pilots every day and the flights get covered at a lesser cost than 3 days of turns for both cities. And crews are now on overnights instead of home every night. Hotels cost less than a pilot costing 6 extra hours over the same days. I hope that is less confusing than it looks.

*disclaimer- the flight times may or may not be accurate. For illustration purposes only. Not for navigation.

 

That math doesn't really add up. That crew only did 2 days worth of work for 13.5 which if it were turns the company would have paid 13.5 anyway with no hotels and they wouldn't have burned a third duty period. You're showing more pay for the turns over three days but the company is gaining an extra day of productivity out of a crew in the same amount of duty periods. Trip averaging is bad for many reasons (although it is industry standard) but this scenario doesn't explain why it leads to crews overnighting in other bases.

 

Not sure if this helps...
Currently
Day 1... 7hrs
Day 2... 2hrs
Day 3... 2hrs
Day 4... 7hrs
Trip worth 18hrs

With min day those 2 hr days would credit 4.0 or 5.0 or whatever is negotiated. Makes for higher credit or more efficient lines.

 

No, it's 3 days of flying and 3 separate duty periods. Day 1 one leg, day 2 two legs and day 3 one leg. They are gone a total of 3 days.
I'm not understanding why you said "if it were turns, the company would have paid 13.5 anyway". Could you elaborate on that?

 

Simply put, trip averaging is the worst!

Recently I had a 2 day trip that paid 10 hours on day one and 1:15 hours on Day 2 (DH at the end of the day 1, so it is legal).

So it paid 11:15 with trip our trip averaging vs 15 hours if we even had a small 5 hour min day.

 

You gave an example of a crew doing 3 tuns over 3 days. Then you have an example of a crew doing the equivalent of 2 turns over 3 days. If the company paid the first crew more money because they did more over three days. The second crew did only 2 turns worth of flying over 3 days. Yes trip averaging allowed the company to build that pairing and not have soft time which would have otherwise been created without trip averaging and a true min calendar day. You example still doesn't explain why trip averaging creates more out of base crews doing flying from another base. They can easily have a crew do two turns for 13.5 instead of the equivalent of two turns for the same 13.5 over 3 days and 3 duty periods plus hotel costs.

Now if what your saying is if we didn't have trip averaging and also had a true min calendar day that 3 day FLL trip wouldn't have been created in the first place because it would have triggered a bunch of soft time and that flying would have remained in ord. I actually think this is what you mean now and that I agree with.

 

Yes I see your point. That is in essence what I was trying to say. When I was initially writing it it did seem confusing even to me.

 

This is trip averaging. It is industry standard though. Delta, united, and Jetblue all have it I know for sure. They do average per calendar day not duty period like we do which is better in most cases and the average is between 5:00-5:15 not 4:30 like us.

I think FedEx is 6hrs min calendar day and no average. Fly a two day with 7hrs day one and 1hr day two you get 7+6