You whiners crack me up......

STOP IT!

The training was designed for ADULTS that can take the initiative to make some progress on their own. (Notice I didn’t say THEYRE or THERE...)

I am NO rocket scientist, and at no point did I feel put upon, or unnecessarily challenged with the training.

This is the point in your career where you are expected to be able to learn material- perhaps on your own, to an extent.

The training “issues” are EASILY second to the contract...
If someone can’t pass the training here-
I really don’t want to fly with you anyway.

Sack up.

*they're ;)

He brings up some valid points. I can't confirm it but from the looks of it he's an American FO.

You nailed it!!!! Much of the problem in the industry revolves around 1 thing, experience. These 2,000 TT pilots just dont have a lot of experiance, which leads to bad decision making. Especially the ones with no PIC. They have never had to sighn for the jet and this leads to indecisiveness.

I'll wager Delta pays you for that time you are studying systems, since it's after you start training. and all. Thats the way it's done at my shop. Initial systems is home study, before training starts, but we get paid for it. I'm not sure how it works for new hires, but if we change equipment, we get 50% of our hourly rate for the programmed home study hours.

Four sims seems crazy for someone without any prior bus experience. I think we got 7, then the maneuvers validation and LOE (check ride).

We get two weeks of VFD/CPT including a few sessions in the sim, with the motion off before the systems test and start of sim.

We also don't do orals, it's a computer based "electronic systems validation". Much better than stump the dummy style orals.

I love the "sack up" comments. So much ancestor worship in this industry, or the "that's the way it was when I flew the Convair/-9/727, etc, so thats the way it needs to be now".

Well lets not conflate these two thing; "sack up" isn't meant to point out that our training program is detailed and all inclusive of what a new hire will need to know. However guys are passing this program as we speak and 1700 on the list now have passed the program, so it can be done with some concentrated effort and study before you show up.

With anything in life, complaining and blaming others for your possible shortcomings will never be received well once above the age of 6.

A contrary to those who like to blame our instructors, every one I have dealt with has been great at what they do. But don't blame instructor if they can't take a low time/experience pilot and make them pass a type ride in 4 sims; some things are just outside of their skill set of techniques.

I came here from an AQP airline. The level of difficulty between AQP and Spirit's system is night and day. With that being said, every pilot in my class hustled and passed the oral and checkride on their first try. 8 weeks of training jammed into 5 sucked but we made it work. There was a class that was starting towards the end of when we finished. Every night during indoc I'm pretty sure they partied and the washout rate ended up being some crazy number.

The training is difficult but it isn't impossible. No hand holding at Spirit and honestly that is where I feel the real company interview happens.

Well seeing as in march of this year he was trying to decide to take his offer from either TSA or PSA I have to guess he doesn't work for AA. Just look back at their posts and it says it all

I don't have a dog in your fight, other than I know several people who have passed the training there. I know it works, my point was it sounds like there is room for improvement. Pilots as a group tend to cling to what we know, and have that "I did it, so whats the problem" attitude.

I'm sure the majority of your instructors are great people, and do what they can, given the limits of the program. And I totally agree, don't blame anyone else for your failures.

Four sims just seems like the company is short changing the new hires. Do they pair two new fo's together, and have them swap seats? Is all the sim time in the right seat, and then you are expected to do the ride from the left? Personally I think all your training time should be in the seat you will be qualified in.

IMHO, training should be a low stress, learning environment, with the end result a competent crew member. I'm not saying a trainee shouldn't have to put in the effort, but training shouldn't give you gray hair and ulcers.



I spent the majority of my career doing non AQP training. At my first commuter (I'm an old guy, so commuter instead of regional) half of my new hire class didn't make it through training. Thats nuts. AQP is a much better way to do things. People will still wash out, but you have to work pretty hard at it.

If the selection and hiring program is doing its job, and the training department is on the ball, the failure rate should be very low.

I don't get the not going home part either. At my current shop, they encourage you to go home and forget about everything on your days off.

Best of luck to your pilot group, I hope you get a decent contract.

Our NewHire Failure rate hovering above 5%
 

Bottom feeders attract more bottom feeders. Especially in the training department where minimal professional oversight takes place while the draconian tyrants have their rings kissed.


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