Negligent accounting
02-11-2018 | 04:07 AM
#92
Banned
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
It’s spelled “completely fair” not “Completley fair.“. Before you accuse others of punctuation and spelling errors (your statement above are filled with), make sure your own house is in order knucklehead. By the way, look up the term ingrate. It means ungrateful, and had zero relevance, you ignoramus.
02-11-2018 | 04:33 AM
#93
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 730
Likes: 59
From: Office Chair
How long have you been at SWA? I’m not sure what your LTD entails but our proposed LTD has a max own occupation benefit of $15k with 5 years of medical coverage. If yours is better than that bravo but this is a huge improvement for us over current book. You also mentioned DC retirement... this TA gets us 11% DC date of signing maxing out at 15% DC end of contract which is pretty similar to what you guys achieved in your last contract. As far as QOL goes, outside of your 6 hour daily rig (which is huge) I’m pretty sure our rescheduling and reserve language is far superior to SWA’s and we maintain that advantage in this TA despite some give backs. Our pay rates are obviously disappointing but as has been mentioned previously we were hamstrung by the Alaska arbitration and the NMB.
At the end of the day there are huge gains in this TA. 43% average pay increase, LTD, vastly improved scope, DC retirement, improved rig package, and retention of key QOL provisions. I’m also pro PBS as line bidding is archaic and agreeing to PBS moved the ball forward on a vastly improved rig package for us. I’m not sure in what world that is considered a failure. Maybe if SWA pilots didn’t undercut the entire industry on wages for 30+ years until 9/11 came along I could take your criticism a little more seriously.
At the end of the day this is a business decision. Short of another $15-$20/hr, profit sharing, and full retro there isn’t much more to be gained here. I’m not going to pretend like I’m not disappointed that we couldn’t achieve all of those goals this round but I’m also realistic. I’m not willing to gamble the other gains made here in order to possibly get an extra $20k/year in 12-18 months. If a SWA pilot wants to look down on me for that decision I couldn’t care less. I’d love to see how our proposed compensation package compares to SWA’s compensation package in relation to the rest of the industry when they were of equal size. I’m willing to bet it’s not close.
SWA pilots should be proud of what they’ve achieved. Your narrow body compensation is now on par with the legacy’s and your scope is the envy of the industry. You guys work your as$es off but at least you’re paid well for it. Bravo... well done. Let’s keep things in perspective though. This has been 50 years in the making. Certainly didn’t happen overnight or in one contract cycle for that matter.
At the end of the day there are huge gains in this TA. 43% average pay increase, LTD, vastly improved scope, DC retirement, improved rig package, and retention of key QOL provisions. I’m also pro PBS as line bidding is archaic and agreeing to PBS moved the ball forward on a vastly improved rig package for us. I’m not sure in what world that is considered a failure. Maybe if SWA pilots didn’t undercut the entire industry on wages for 30+ years until 9/11 came along I could take your criticism a little more seriously.
At the end of the day this is a business decision. Short of another $15-$20/hr, profit sharing, and full retro there isn’t much more to be gained here. I’m not going to pretend like I’m not disappointed that we couldn’t achieve all of those goals this round but I’m also realistic. I’m not willing to gamble the other gains made here in order to possibly get an extra $20k/year in 12-18 months. If a SWA pilot wants to look down on me for that decision I couldn’t care less. I’d love to see how our proposed compensation package compares to SWA’s compensation package in relation to the rest of the industry when they were of equal size. I’m willing to bet it’s not close.
SWA pilots should be proud of what they’ve achieved. Your narrow body compensation is now on par with the legacy’s and your scope is the envy of the industry. You guys work your as$es off but at least you’re paid well for it. Bravo... well done. Let’s keep things in perspective though. This has been 50 years in the making. Certainly didn’t happen overnight or in one contract cycle for that matter.
02-11-2018 | 05:24 AM
#94
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 356
Likes: 74
Yeah... a lot less than it’s going to cost us to hold out for another 1-3 years hoping to get a higher starting DC percentage at DOS.
Last edited by BKbigfish; 02-11-2018 at 05:36 AM.
02-11-2018 | 05:41 AM
#95
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,276
Likes: 273
From: B737CA
How long have you been at SWA? I’m not sure what your LTD entails but our proposed LTD has a max own occupation benefit of $15k with 5 years of medical coverage. If yours is better than that bravo but this is a huge improvement for us over current book. You also mentioned DC retirement... this TA gets us 11% DC date of signing maxing out at 15% DC end of contract which is pretty similar to what you guys achieved in your last contract. As far as QOL goes, outside of your 6 hour daily rig (which is huge) I’m pretty sure our rescheduling and reserve language is far superior to SWA’s and we maintain that advantage in this TA despite some give backs. Our pay rates are obviously disappointing but as has been mentioned previously we were hamstrung by the Alaska arbitration and the NMB.
At the end of the day there are huge gains in this TA. 43% average pay increase, LTD, vastly improved scope, DC retirement, improved rig package, and retention of key QOL provisions. I’m also pro PBS as line bidding is archaic and agreeing to PBS moved the ball forward on a vastly improved rig package for us. I’m not sure in what world that is considered a failure. Maybe if SWA pilots didn’t undercut the entire industry on wages for 30+ years until 9/11 came along I could take your criticism a little more seriously.
At the end of the day this is a business decision. Short of another $15-$20/hr, profit sharing, and full retro there isn’t much more to be gained here. I’m not going to pretend like I’m not disappointed that we couldn’t achieve all of those goals this round but I’m also realistic. I’m not willing to gamble the other gains made here in order to possibly get an extra $20k/year in 12-18 months. If a SWA pilot wants to look down on me for that decision I couldn’t care less. I’d love to see how our proposed compensation package compares to SWA’s compensation package in relation to the rest of the industry when they were of equal size. I’m willing to bet it’s not close.
SWA pilots should be proud of what they’ve achieved. Your narrow body compensation is now on par with the legacy’s and your scope is the envy of the industry. You guys work your as$es off but at least you’re paid well for it. Bravo... well done. Let’s keep things in perspective though. This has been 50 years in the making. Certainly didn’t happen overnight or in one contract cycle for that matter.
At the end of the day there are huge gains in this TA. 43% average pay increase, LTD, vastly improved scope, DC retirement, improved rig package, and retention of key QOL provisions. I’m also pro PBS as line bidding is archaic and agreeing to PBS moved the ball forward on a vastly improved rig package for us. I’m not sure in what world that is considered a failure. Maybe if SWA pilots didn’t undercut the entire industry on wages for 30+ years until 9/11 came along I could take your criticism a little more seriously.
At the end of the day this is a business decision. Short of another $15-$20/hr, profit sharing, and full retro there isn’t much more to be gained here. I’m not going to pretend like I’m not disappointed that we couldn’t achieve all of those goals this round but I’m also realistic. I’m not willing to gamble the other gains made here in order to possibly get an extra $20k/year in 12-18 months. If a SWA pilot wants to look down on me for that decision I couldn’t care less. I’d love to see how our proposed compensation package compares to SWA’s compensation package in relation to the rest of the industry when they were of equal size. I’m willing to bet it’s not close.
SWA pilots should be proud of what they’ve achieved. Your narrow body compensation is now on par with the legacy’s and your scope is the envy of the industry. You guys work your as$es off but at least you’re paid well for it. Bravo... well done. Let’s keep things in perspective though. This has been 50 years in the making. Certainly didn’t happen overnight or in one contract cycle for that matter.
Since you brought up reserve, are you familiar with ours? You make it sound like you are. I'm not familiar with yours. In what way is your reserve superior to ours? For example, here we don't have a defined monthly guarantee anymore. That went away with the last contract... now we get min pay per day. If we get jerked around on reserve i.e. reassigned, for the most part, you fall under the same rules as a line holder which means you get premium pay for many reassignments. To put it in perspective, many reserves here credit around 115-125 TFP per month while flying about 50 hours or so ballpark. Translated to per-hour basis, that's around 100-109 hours of pay.
Also, our reserve work days do not exceed 16 days per month which means a minimum of 15 days off on 31 day months or 14 days off on a 30 day month. No airport reserve here either. Our bummer is... we can't drop reserve days, though nowadays people will pick it up from you if you want to give it away. I'm a lineholder, but I pick up reserve blocks these days because it's a decent way to make extra $$$$.
You're also correct in that this has been years in the making. What you fail to realize is that this pilot group tends to be the biggest bunch of koolaid drinkers and we almost got suckered in by TA1... thankfully, we passed on that turd and 9-10 months later, we ended up with what we have. In the end, you control your destiny, not the mediator or her empty threats. Also, I never said I was gonna look down on you if you pass this. What I did say was if you were going to look at your total package and "gains" with this TA and then look at your lanyard and wonder if you were still a discount pilot.
From what I see, we still have your former captains starting here as probationary FO's and more are applying as a result of this TA. I don't know... if it's as good as you say, why would they be leaving or looking to leave?
02-11-2018 | 05:42 AM
#96
On Reserve
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 81
Likes: 16
I’ve heard that argument more than once about getting more vacation off if you’re more senior. Makes no sense. Right now you have a week you can bid lines to conflict (or not) with. Even slide if you want. To imply this (+9 days) is something only possible with good seniority now is completely false unless your vacation happens to be the week between Christmas and NYE.
02-11-2018 | 06:04 AM
#97
Banned
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Very nice summary, except you're missing out on a couple of big-ticket items. You're scoffing at $15-20/hr more and profit sharing. You do understand how much money you're leaving on the table by just this little gem (PS), don't you? Our non-hustling captains are making around 300k per year in eligible wages (meaning we don't count NEC overages or previous year's PS in eligible wage calculation). Under the current contract, that PS meant 13.2% for 2016 and 11.3% for 2017. Using 300k as a baseline figure, that's another 34-39k in compensation left on the table. Throw in the amount you scoffed at, and you've made some bean counter a very happy person. You will have essentially left 55-60k/year on the table for the duration of your contract, and that's comparing you to us, which is what you seem to like to do. As I said before, I would expect that the management will be rewarded with a very nice bonus after you folks vote this in. They will have deserved it.
Since you brought up reserve, are you familiar with ours? You make it sound like you are. I'm not familiar with yours. In what way is your reserve superior to ours? For example, here we don't have a defined monthly guarantee anymore. That went away with the last contract... now we get min pay per day. If we get jerked around on reserve i.e. reassigned, for the most part, you fall under the same rules as a line holder which means you get premium pay for many reassignments. To put it in perspective, many reserves here credit around 115-125 TFP per month while flying about 50 hours or so ballpark. Translated to per-hour basis, that's around 100-109 hours of pay.
Also, our reserve work days do not exceed 16 days per month which means a minimum of 15 days off on 31 day months or 14 days off on a 30 day month. No airport reserve here either. Our bummer is... we can't drop reserve days, though nowadays people will pick it up from you if you want to give it away. I'm a lineholder, but I pick up reserve blocks these days because it's a decent way to make extra $$$$.
You're also correct in that this has been years in the making. What you fail to realize is that this pilot group tends to be the biggest bunch of koolaid drinkers and we almost got suckered in by TA1... thankfully, we passed on that turd and 9-10 months later, we ended up with what we have. In the end, you control your destiny, not the mediator or her empty threats. Also, I never said I was gonna look down on you if you pass this. What I did say was if you were going to look at your total package and "gains" with this TA and then look at your lanyard and wonder if you were still a discount pilot.
From what I see, we still have your former captains starting here as probationary FO's and more are applying as a result of this TA. I don't know... if it's as good as you say, why would they be leaving or looking to leave?
Since you brought up reserve, are you familiar with ours? You make it sound like you are. I'm not familiar with yours. In what way is your reserve superior to ours? For example, here we don't have a defined monthly guarantee anymore. That went away with the last contract... now we get min pay per day. If we get jerked around on reserve i.e. reassigned, for the most part, you fall under the same rules as a line holder which means you get premium pay for many reassignments. To put it in perspective, many reserves here credit around 115-125 TFP per month while flying about 50 hours or so ballpark. Translated to per-hour basis, that's around 100-109 hours of pay.
Also, our reserve work days do not exceed 16 days per month which means a minimum of 15 days off on 31 day months or 14 days off on a 30 day month. No airport reserve here either. Our bummer is... we can't drop reserve days, though nowadays people will pick it up from you if you want to give it away. I'm a lineholder, but I pick up reserve blocks these days because it's a decent way to make extra $$$$.
You're also correct in that this has been years in the making. What you fail to realize is that this pilot group tends to be the biggest bunch of koolaid drinkers and we almost got suckered in by TA1... thankfully, we passed on that turd and 9-10 months later, we ended up with what we have. In the end, you control your destiny, not the mediator or her empty threats. Also, I never said I was gonna look down on you if you pass this. What I did say was if you were going to look at your total package and "gains" with this TA and then look at your lanyard and wonder if you were still a discount pilot.
From what I see, we still have your former captains starting here as probationary FO's and more are applying as a result of this TA. I don't know... if it's as good as you say, why would they be leaving or looking to leave?
02-11-2018 | 06:22 AM
#98
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,276
Likes: 273
From: B737CA
There shouldn't be ANY leaving if this thing is as good as some of you folks are advertising, bases or no bases. Spirit is a major airline. The mere fact that there are captains leaving to start over on the bottom somewhere else should at least raise some eyebrows...
02-11-2018 | 06:35 AM
#99
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
He hasn't bashed ALPA. I've only seen a few posts. If anything, he is bashing you and your grammar. Go back and read some of the posts. His concern, like many, was to the extent certain items were being given up. So please, stop with the BS and lies of what you think people are saying.
02-11-2018 | 07:26 AM
#100
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
There shouldn't be ANY leaving if this thing is as good as some of you folks are advertising, bases or no bases. Spirit is a major airline. The mere fact that there are captains leaving to start over on the bottom somewhere else should at least raise some eyebrows...
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