Cooler heads must prevail
02-15-2018 | 04:57 AM
#141
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 183
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From: CA
What guys aren’t getting is I want to vote yes on this thing. I haven’t been complaining about section 25 and while section 3 isn’t my cup of tea I’d vote for it because of the very important gains elsewhere. Good money, a DC retirement, own occupation LTD, and scope protection for mergers and prevention of outsourcing my current job or growth. We are 95% there. The 5% unfortunately deals with outsourcing growth and that’s a problem for me.
I streamed the ord road show and saw all the graphs and listened to all the Q and A (not day 2). I’ve read every Q and A email and the master Q and A on the TA website. I’ve also read the entire TA page by page. My concerns on most of 1.E have been addressed and although it’s not what I would’ve liked to see, I can probably live with it I think. I’ve sent email with other scope concerns I have that have gone unanswered.
I respect the NC and the entire panel doing the road shows and I know they are very busy. They may not have gotten to my emails yet. I plan to ask my questions in person. It’s not a personal attack on anyone here or the NC or Art. My questions have not been answered. I just get called crazy and that I don’t know anything but no one can seem to tell me definatively that my concerns are unfounded with supporting language to prove otherwise.
I read the scope section as if I’m John Bendoritis and Ted Christie trying to seek a work around of my now higher cost pilot group. These guys have a history and it’s not pilot friendly. The will not grow this airline with us if they don’t have to. I want our scope section to ensure that they have to.
If a frontier merger is slated for tomorrow it would be smart to take this just for what’s in it now. I understand that.
I streamed the ord road show and saw all the graphs and listened to all the Q and A (not day 2). I’ve read every Q and A email and the master Q and A on the TA website. I’ve also read the entire TA page by page. My concerns on most of 1.E have been addressed and although it’s not what I would’ve liked to see, I can probably live with it I think. I’ve sent email with other scope concerns I have that have gone unanswered.
I respect the NC and the entire panel doing the road shows and I know they are very busy. They may not have gotten to my emails yet. I plan to ask my questions in person. It’s not a personal attack on anyone here or the NC or Art. My questions have not been answered. I just get called crazy and that I don’t know anything but no one can seem to tell me definatively that my concerns are unfounded with supporting language to prove otherwise.
I read the scope section as if I’m John Bendoritis and Ted Christie trying to seek a work around of my now higher cost pilot group. These guys have a history and it’s not pilot friendly. The will not grow this airline with us if they don’t have to. I want our scope section to ensure that they have to.
If a frontier merger is slated for tomorrow it would be smart to take this just for what’s in it now. I understand that.
Last edited by Tjamaica; 02-15-2018 at 05:31 AM.
02-15-2018 | 05:12 AM
#142
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
I’m really tired of everyone telling folks they need to go to a roadshow if they are voting no. I did go to a roadshow and I’m still voting no. I could take most things in the pos ta but I can’t sign off on no reserve drops. I can go to all the road shows and it won’t convince me other wise. There are other reasons I’m voting no (scope, no raise in training pay, pay in general). But the roadshow didn’t change my mind, maybe there wasn’t enough kool-aid at the one I went to, or maybe this is my 3+ contract negotiation in almost 20 years and I refuse to buy what they are selling, and I refuse to pull the ladder up behind me.
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I think it's great to know what the NC and ALPA lawyers think and if we vote no if would get a lot more money (very doubtful since the viability of the company comes into question), if the scope would improve (not unless we fire Art and hire Qotsaautopilot), and if we could get another contract quickly (unknown, but the NMB has other priorities so it could be years).
02-15-2018 | 05:27 AM
#143
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 456
Likes: 0
I’m really tired of everyone telling folks they need to go to a roadshow if they are voting no. I did go to a roadshow and I’m still voting no. I could take most things in the pos ta but I can’t sign off on no reserve drops. I can go to all the road shows and it won’t convince me other wise. There are other reasons I’m voting no (scope, no raise in training pay, pay in general). But the roadshow didn’t change my mind, maybe there wasn’t enough kool-aid at the one I went to, or maybe this is my 3+ contract negotiation in almost 20 years and I refuse to buy what they are selling, and I refuse to pull the ladder up behind me.
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02-15-2018 | 07:02 AM
#144
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 657
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If you had read closely you would have seen I did go to a roadshow. I’m sorry you don’t like my reasoning for voting no, but no one will be changing my mind on it.
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02-15-2018 | 09:51 AM
#146
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 41
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The “checker boarding” of reserve days by pilots is the reason the NMB, not the NC, is not going to entertain keeping this system. Whether you are engaging in this for your own personal gain (special deals) or you want to make it impossible for them to call you out for a multi day trip, doesn’t matter. The company successfully persuaded the NMB that this was a big part of the spring meltdown. This ship has sailed, whether you like it or not.
I see guys that are very senior to me bidding reserve. Why? Some really do want to have lots of days off and never get called, some have another revenue stream and are using spirit as a flying club with health insurance, but more often than not there are games being played. Like it or not, Spirit knows what’s going on and are done entertaining the whims of a few. I’m not saying that I agree with Spirit management, but they are a business that needs to make money and grow. The NMB sees this issue the same way and isn’t going to be persuaded that we will behave, if they give us another TA.
I see guys that are very senior to me bidding reserve. Why? Some really do want to have lots of days off and never get called, some have another revenue stream and are using spirit as a flying club with health insurance, but more often than not there are games being played. Like it or not, Spirit knows what’s going on and are done entertaining the whims of a few. I’m not saying that I agree with Spirit management, but they are a business that needs to make money and grow. The NMB sees this issue the same way and isn’t going to be persuaded that we will behave, if they give us another TA.
02-15-2018 | 09:56 AM
#147
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
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I feel like dropping from the outside in should been allowed up to a certain number of days a month without using mandatory float vacation. The center day drop Crew definitely sealed everyone’s fate with that one. It wasn’t illegal so I can’t blame them but heavy use of it didn’t do us any favors
02-15-2018 | 10:00 AM
#148
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 657
Likes: 0
I would be happy if they would still let us drop and just not leave single days then. I need to drop around my wife’s schedule so someone’s at home, this new contract is going to prohibit me from doing that, so it’s becoming an issue of her job or my job? A big part of why I came to Spirit is the flexibility and now that it’s being taken away I’m not left with a lot of options. Please don’t tell me to bid a line either, I would if I could but after a year+ I still can’t hold one.
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02-15-2018 | 12:08 PM
#150
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 657
Likes: 0
Cooler heads must prevail
Maybe? We haven’t crunched the number yet, but I’m willing to bet she won’t be in favor of quitting since she has the better job. Even if she did it’s still not going to get me the days of for family events bc of the no reserve drop. Oh well I should have known after 20 years, a lot of pilots are short sighted and like shiny objects. I’m sure we will find a way to make it work when it passes (which I’m sure it will), it’s really bothering me that folks are trying to explain to me why it’s good, when I know for me it’s bad.
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