Originally Posted by BKbigfish

Seriously... run the numbers. I have a hard time believing you can find a scenario where the B plan beats the Health Diamond HRA.

Originally Posted by PrattFan

Seriously...you don’t think I’ve run the numbers...every year? I shouldn’t have to explain it, but I will so you guys will stop making your claims.

It’s not that hard actually, prescription drugs.


B plan

Per paycheck premiums $353.85 x 24= $8,492.40 + $750 deductible= $9,242.40 max health care costs annually (100% pre tax money with FSA covering the deductible).





Diamond plan

Per paycheck premiums $154.94 x 24= $3,718.56 + $7,000 max out of pocket= $10,718.56 max health care costs annually.
In reality, it would effectively be $12,168.56 since only $6,368.56 (premiums + 2018 FSA limit of $2,650) of total would be with pre-tax money, the remaining $4,350 after tax money would require $5,800 in earnings at the 25% tax bracket.

Here’s the part you guys miss. The $3,000/year company funded account can not be used on prescription drugs. The Diamond plan non-formulary brand prescription drugs (tier 4 drugs) have a 50% copay (min $50/no max) until you reach your max out of pocket. Even brand drugs are 25% copay (min $25/max $300).

When you have a loved one who has a prescription drug need anywhere from $5,000-$15,000 monthly, you could easily reach the max out of pocket ($7,000) in February, all self funded, and haven’t seen a doctor or been to a hospital yet. Meanwhile, the company’s money sits unused because the out of pocket max was reached, and the plan pays the rest. So what, it rolls over, you say? Sure, same thing happens next year, and the next year, and the next.

You guys think in terms of healthy vs. catastrophic. High costs don’t just come from catastrophic events, they also come from expensive drugs associated with chronic illnesses. I’m not alone, I know of pilots and/or their loved ones with MS, cancer, genetic diseases, etc. who are in the same boat on prescription drug costs that make the Diamond plan cost prohibitive. What’s sad, it’s allowable for Spirit’s money to cover drugs, they choose not to allow it. R&I is skeptical that will ever change, but should it, I’ll be on the Diamond plan right along with you. Although, if you know you’ll hit the max out of pocket I’d argue the cost differences would be negligible.


If you are curious what was wrong in the union’s cost analysis? They showed the annual cost for the B plan including the $3,000 max out of pocket. Where that’s misleading, the plan pays 100% after the $250/$750 deductible is met, except for mental healthcare. So unless you have mental healthcare needs, it’s really just the premiums plus the deductible annually, as I showed above, which is $2,250 less than what the union analysis reflected.

This is all a moot point, the B plan is closed to new entrants. So you guys get what you believed to be true, the Diamond plan is best for everybody. Well, except those of us that were on it.

Originally Posted by symbian simian

I am curious why you say the union is misleading when they take mental health into account when calculating MOOP.
The way I see it plan B $11,500/year, Diamond $12,500 (I have higher taxes)/year for people who max out everything, so around $80/month difference.
If you forget about mental healthcare (Which with the amount of school shootings we have, I would not), the difference is $200 per month.
If you are lucky and have low cost the difference is $400 per month in favor of Diamond, and you roll over for a bad year.
Unless you are "planning" to have a family member on prescription meds for 2 out of every 3 years of your career without needing mental help, the Diamond plan is better.

I am sure the company cancelled the plan for the exact reason you want to keep it: it is expensive for them and cheap for you if you need the expensive meds on a continuing bases, and that is cheap and wrong from NK.
The bigger issue is medication price as much as anything else but that is a political issue, not one between us and the company.

Originally Posted by PrattFan

It was misleading because it implied catastrophic year max costs. When people are evaluating the costs, I don’t think the vast majority would be thinking of mental health needs when they think of a catostrophic event. If people don’t look much deeper into the plan, and just see the union numbers, it’s somewhat misleading to the average person, just my opinion.

If I implied in anyway that the Diamond plan is not a great plan, I didn’t meant to. It is a great plan for most, I just have gotten tired through the years of people telling me there is no scenario where the B plan could be better. I also wasn’t discrediting mental health needs, it’s just currently not part of my equation, if it was my needs might change. My ultimate point has always been, do the math for you, and select what’s best. Don’t go to the internet and profess you know what’s best for others, especially when you could be wrong.

If the company wanted the majority of the B plan people to get off of it, or wanted to negotiate it away, it’s simple, check the box to allow their money to be used on prescription drugs. It costs them nearly nothing more, why the refusal to do that?

Also, there is a time when all this will change. The CBA allowed 7% premium increase will have an exponentially greater affect on the higher B plan premiums then the Diamond. When that causes the costs to meet, there may virtually be no reasonable reason to select the B plan. I haven’t done the math to know exactly when that will be, but I’m hoping it will be about the time this CBA is amended and the B plan likely goes away all together.

Originally Posted by PrattFan

Seriously...you don’t think I’ve run the numbers...every year? I shouldn’t have to explain it, but I will so you guys will stop making your claims.



It’s not that hard actually, prescription drugs.





B plan



Per paycheck premiums $353.85 x 24= $8,492.40 + $750 deductible= $9,242.40 max health care costs annually (100% pre tax money with FSA covering the deductible).







Diamond plan



Per paycheck premiums $154.94 x 24= $3,718.56 + $7,000 max out of pocket= $10,718.56 max health care costs annually.

In reality, it would effectively be $12,168.56 since only $6,368.56 (premiums + 2018 FSA limit of $2,650) of total would be with pre-tax money, the remaining $4,350 after tax money would require $5,800 in earnings at the 25% tax bracket.



Here’s the part you guys miss. The $3,000/year company funded account can not be used on prescription drugs. The Diamond plan non-formulary brand prescription drugs (tier 4 drugs) have a 50% copay (min $50/no max) until you reach your max out of pocket. Even brand drugs are 25% copay (min $25/max $300).



When you have a loved one who has a prescription drug need anywhere from $5,000-$15,000 monthly, you could easily reach the max out of pocket ($7,000) in February, all self funded, and haven’t seen a doctor or been to a hospital yet. Meanwhile, the company’s money sits unused because the out of pocket max was reached, and the plan pays the rest. So what, it rolls over, you say? Sure, same thing happens next year, and the next year, and the next.



You guys think in terms of healthy vs. catastrophic. High costs don’t just come from catastrophic events, they also come from expensive drugs associated with chronic illnesses. I’m not alone, I know of pilots and/or their loved ones with MS, cancer, genetic diseases, etc. who are in the same boat on prescription drug costs that make the Diamond plan cost prohibitive. What’s sad, it’s allowable for Spirit’s money to cover drugs, they choose not to allow it. R&I is skeptical that will ever change, but should it, I’ll be on the Diamond plan right along with you. Although, if you know you’ll hit the max out of pocket I’d argue the cost differences would be negligible.





If you are curious what was wrong in the union’s cost analysis? They showed the annual cost for the B plan including the $3,000 max out of pocket. Where that’s misleading, the plan pays 100% after the $250/$750 deductible is met, except for mental healthcare. So unless you have mental healthcare needs, it’s really just the premiums plus the deductible annually, as I showed above, which is $2,250 less than what the union analysis reflected.



This is all a moot point, the B plan is closed to new entrants. So you guys get what you believed to be true, the Diamond plan is best for everybody. Well, except those of us that were on it.

Originally Posted by flyingpuma1

Thank you! We are on the B plan as well and I get the “it’s the same as the diamond plan” all the time. Thanks for actually showing everyone it’s not.


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Originally Posted by TrojanCMH

You’re right that it’s not the same as the diamond plan, but if someone in your family doesn’t require some really expensive monthly medications you’re usually going to come out ahead with the diamond plan. It’s understood that everyone’s family has different medical needs but in most cases the diamond plan is going to be a more fiscally prudent choice. There are outliers though...


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Originally Posted by flyingpuma1

I know the diamond works for most but not for us; between my wife's prescriptions and her surgeon who only takes the POS plan, the diamond simply won't work for us....I'm grateful we still have it but I am disappointed the new hires can't get on it if they need it.

Originally Posted by Gjn290

There’s still the POS A plan. Same coverage, just lower premiums, higher deductibles/max out of pocket, right?