Arbitration.

Winner winner!!

We would probably lose that arbitration and that's ok with me. Adding 100+ A220's without anymore 321's would just dilute the override anyway. Let the guys that stay on that type keep the extra money instead of watering it down.

I don’t understand who would argue that it isn’t an Airbus. It had “A” in the title, they are marketing and selling it as an Airbus...even the company is calling it an Airbus.

Playing devils advocate here, but the precedent is from a long time ago when there were only 319’s and 321’s on property, and there were two different pay scales. With only a couple 321’s flying out of certain bases, only a few pilots were enjoying the higher paying fleet. Since you can’t bid for it, the override was a way for all pilots to get a taste, rather than a few who do all the 321 routes. The contract language is a ratio of the total hours flown by 321 to 320/319, if you further dilute that ratio with hours flown by the 220 as well, ain’t going to be much of an override left.

Thats a very good point. IF we had A220s on property, All A320 typed pilots should not want the A220 included, money out of your pocket. I have not thought about that angle but man it makes sense....and yes, I dont think anyone would be happy flying the A320s knowing their 321 override is diluted by those who dont even fly the 321...

I'm sorry, but this is ignorant. The A220 holds the same as our 319. Should guys be ****ed at those flying 319's that were bought from SA or bought back from lease? If we don't purchase any additional 321's a we continue to grow the airline then our share of an override or the ability to bid 321 flying will be diluted. It's six one way half a dozen the other.

Another devil's advocate but when contract was signed it wasn't an Airbus.

Ok, I’ll be ignorant if you’ll be delusional...Come on, not trying to get into a back and forth name calling contest.

Do you think the company or an arbitrator is going to say that a A220 qualifies under the A321 override section because it’s an Airbus in name and that the ratio of A220 flying will not be used to dilute the block hours of A321 vs all flying, yet everyone gets paid?

Your example of planes brought back on lease doesn’t seem to be a relevant comparison on what this is. A more relevant example is a property who had a carve out for a 737 and that specific carve out was also paid to pilots of 757/767 or another Boeing aircraft. Is that common? I don’t know?

I would love everyone to get paid, that’s a no brainer. But someone posted that it would/could possibly dilute the override of guys actually flying the type, and it was an interesting point in the exercise of playing devils advocate.

I think it’s all moot anyways and they announce more A320 types.

Ignorant isn't an insult. Stupid is.

Any airframe that isn't a 321 will dilute the block hours. Period. The A220, nee C Series, is now majority owned by Airbus (50.01%), is marketed as an Airbus, is called an Airbus, and is sold as an Airbus. Whether we order 220's or 320's it'll be the same. They're both Airbii.

Gotta agree with O.

If you can't fly the 321, you don't get the override. If we flew the 73 you wouldn't get it, so why would we dilute the override of those that deal with the 21?

Too bad we didn't fight for new hires like we're fighting for an airplane we haven't ordered and probably won't.

Not everything in life is fair.. I'm surprised to see your stance.

I have no idea why anyone thinks the company would care. The override is based on 321 block hours. It’s the same amount of money no matter who they pay it to.

It’s us that will have differing opinions about it.

At the end of the day it’s about $400 a month or a bit less for CA’s making $250k and roughly half that for FO’s. It’s not nothing, but it isn’t life changing either.

It’s going to be less each check though bc we aren’t taking anymore 321s and are still growing. You understand that right? It’s based on 321 block hours which are mostly fixed at this point. So it’s a fixed amount of money the company is paying out but spread over more pilots as we grow. It sounds silly but as we grow you’d fly the 321 less often meaning if you it only paid when you flew it it would be a shrinking amount in your paycheck than before. Just another way to calculate it.

Point being the company doesn’t care. We have a fixed number of 321s flying a general fixed number of block outs so the company is paying a mostly fixed dollar amount for the override every month. They don’t care if they pay that dollar amount to 1 guy or 3000 guys. It’s the same amount of money.

So it will eventually be just a smidge more than our red eye override.

At least we all get the red eye override regardless of what airplane you fly.

I understood the math. It’s not enough money to keep me up at night. If I get it great. If I don’t get it oh well. I’d rather get that 40% more that other airline pilots are making. This override is a rounding error. But that’s me.

Besides, a 220 crew might end up making more on the occasional Deep South trip that the bus can’t do. There’s lots of variables, and it’s all conjecture until people start walking down the jet bridge to fly one.

I saw a yellow 747 the other day. DHL was painted on the sides. Was excited for 2 seconds.

Although this article was written about SWA, it is relevant for Spirit too (same strategic fleet issues):

https://airinsight.com/is-southwest-breaking-its-737-addiction/

Really? What part of the A320 was certified in1965?

48 planes coming in 2020 and 2021 for Spirit. They are all NEOs. Spirit is making moves to lower their seat costs going forward.

IF Spirit places an order for CEO Airbus 319s, the article would be relevant, but as of this morning, lots of NEOs coming

As of this morning? Did I miss some news this morning?

Allegedly we put our hands on some more Neo’s from another failed airline. Fleet plan is supposed to be in the 190’s now.

it shows 193 at end of 2021.

http://ir.spirit.com/Cache/1500122128.PDF?O=PDF&T=&Y=&D=&FID=1500122128&iid=4 994436

That’s old news. That’s been the fleet plan as of July 24th.

That number was on my iPad in May


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We can't crew the planes we have now let alone the ones we have coming.Number one in cancelations the last few days.

High Five

That explains the 60+ a month hiring wave. I would guess mngnt learned the short staffing model is a bad plan.

Who knew you needed pilots to run an airline? Apparently management didn't.

We seem to be just as short on flight attendants as we are with pilots. I personally ferried an empty plane leaving the passengers behind due to no flight attendants, and I’ve heard of it happening several other times lately.

Along with the 60+ pilots a month the training center is also running 120 FA a month.

Any new order of A220s would take a few years to start deliveries. The Embraer E2, with very few total orders, could likely be ready for delivery sooner. Not sure about the MAX if that is a consideration.

Management has said the 190 is out

Not going to need them till 2022

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1VG1WN

I’m calling it..787

We would have a pretty good CASM in that plane.

And we could be the highest paid pilots that operates yellow 787’s. We are already the highest paid yellow A320 operators.

I’m leaning towards an order of MAx 10’s and Max 8’s probably announced the day Boeing re certifies it. Probably why the order has been delayed so long. Don’t want to announce a big order for a grounded airplane.

Makes sense if true.

Apparently our Airbus order book indicates “void” which is both a recent change and is usually indicative that privacy is desired on an order that has been placed.

I guess it could mean a fleet swap, but that wasn’t what was suggested by the source providing that information.

Airbus excel sheet still shows orders for us

They said end of Aug or early Sept for an announcement at the last quarterly report.

The 737 Max 200 could use another customer besides Ryanair