That’s ridiculous. Cry me a river. Before the contract we have pilots on property that made tens of thousands of dollars less than their peers, some over $100k less. Even post contract we are below them.

But yeah, let’s focus on setting the new bar for first year pay. Don’t think for a second that raising first year higher would not shift the money backwards in other areas.

The best are guys like Excargodog coming here to complain as regional new hire FO that has zero comprehension on how the industry works, contrary to his self proclaimed wisdom.

Contract passed “Bigly”. You know why? Money. Simple.

 

Well, depending on how the next few years go with the other guys' contract negotiations we very well could be back at the same deficit again. Should we sell year 1 down the river one more time? Clearly we have nothing left to sell since the money's going to shift backwards.

 

First year got a 45% raise this contract and DOS increases year over year. First year ends at $61.15. I hope we can secure another 45% raise for first year on that for next contract. Is that “selling them down the river?”

Would $90 an hr next contract make everyone happy? Or do we need to guarantee that everyone on first year next time makes $100k first year?

Raises will come, as they will hopefully come to all pilots. Sorry but the pilot group spoke with their votes and wallets. You can hate that fact, but it doesn’t make it any less of a fact.

 

What if the company decides to run a massive hiring campaign and throws out hefty sign on bonuses to new hires on top of whatever raise ALPA negotiated for them? Anyone ever think about that??

Many of us saw this exact scenario played out at the regionals...brand new FOs making more than senior FOs on property and in some cases on par with junior CAs. All the while the dues paying pilots on property were fighting for a new contract that never came because new hire classes were full. Not interested in seeing that played out again in my career...no thanks.

 

Maybe they weren’t sold down the river, but I don’t think prospective candidates care enough to research what the huge percentage gain was for first year pilots at Spirit. I think they’re still looking at the dollar amount. So yes, while first year pay at Spirit went up an unheard of 45%, it still just became $55.95 increasing to $61.15 in 5 years, for 7 months with 3 months being paid at $1000 + $750 per diem. Would it have convinced you to come here? Apparently so, but for others, maybe not. Sure we don’t need/want/care about people like that here, but at some point we gotta realize first year pay is a factor for people considering careers here, like the thread starter.

And yes, I think something closer to $90 would likely end the discussion about first year pay. What kind of question is that?

 

So you’re good with $hit Training Pay, No Health Insurance for 90 Days, pathetic 1st year rates and no schedule Flexibility while on Reserve.

Yeah, I took the $70k pay cut there too, but it doesn’t make it justifiable. How about folks facing medical issues personally or within their families while on Training pay without Insurance?

Blinded by the pay raises and your personal gains.

 

Haha. You’re being ridiculous. Nobody said they are “good” with anything. Healthcare is an entirely different animal. If you’re going to play the straw man argument, you should not lead with it.

Here are some facts you need to accept as an adult; Santa isn’t real, you’re really weren’t the “best kid in the world”, regardless what your parents told you growing up, and you always don’t get what you want when you want it.

“Pay rates and personal gains?” I’m sorry but are we doing this for fun? This is a profession, it’s how we make money; so you’re darn right that pilots care about personal gains and the pay rates that provide them. It’s the reason we go to work, save for retirement, take an X list, it’s for the gains. You think any pilot on this list outside of probation feels bad about personal gains? It’s why we do it.

Complain all you want but your argument is pie-eyed and full of whimsical hope, based in fairly tale land. First year guys got 45% raises and hopefully this place keeps going to provide another 45% increase next fo around.

But spare the hyperbole of how first year pilots are begging for food in the streets. Riddle me how every other pilot did it on $38 and now it’s a travesty that they are doing it now at $57. Never will you convince me that any pilot currently on the seniority list should have taken less this contract so that guys not on the property can have more than a 45% raise.

 

Really just sounds like a bunch of excuses for mediocrity and inferior qualities in a contract.

Like I said, just because we suffered through it doesn’t mean the next 2,500 New Hires should as well.

And yes, pay rates and personal gains completely blinded you from the hardships that your fellow pilots would have to suffer. The percentages are large, because of the pathetically low starting point.

None of the above affects you any longer, so you don’t care.

 

Taking well over $100K out of your income is real close to that.

 

These guys will just try to rationalize what they know deep down is a $hit sandwich. The same way they rationalized their way into a Yes Vote, while taking numerous concessions.