Wow. 21 pages in and no SLI argument / fights. I'm impressed APC :)

yeah the dispute was tied to a drop request in mot but in that case it might have also been a sub guaranteed built schedule? Either way the dispute was withdrawn.

I doubt it. Management has known about this for a very long time and they just told our training department to expect 110-120 new hires per month. I think hiring is still full-speed ahead.

Preach! Stop seeing yourself as a second tier pilot and try to get your worth

We hired 69 in January and lost 53 for a net of 16 new hires. We need to increase that by a factor of 6 and this announcement just made Firit an even uglier option compared to anywhere else. I'd think it would have to increase, exponentially, to cover to mass exodus off stage left.

You lost 53 (F9 guy here)? I thought our attrition was bad...

And I TOTALLY agree. We both have an uphill battle. I don't know how many NK guys are still around that remember the Franke/Biffle show but it's not necessarily all that great. How they were able to stay in charge is a wonder. Given their track record and the silliness we both experience on a day to day basis on the line, the ultimate focus has GOT to be the contract and getting - what I consider - widebody rates (since we haul more passengers than legacy 75/76). With a me too. Trust me, w/ our combined CASM and increased efficiencies, they can more than afford it. This is the time. The most important aspect of both of our business models at this point has to be growth and retention and despite a merger, that just doesn't happen w/ legacy efforts and their pay scales.

I’ve seen a lot of concern about losing the ability to drop to 0 with Frontiers contract but our min of 60 can be fairly lucrative as well. I had a big example of mine typed up but it was confusing out of context. In short, I started the month with 85 hours in my base MCO but ended the month with 60 in LAS and DEN, didn’t fly a single trip in MCO, and had 22 days off. Oh and I’m still on probation and that was the first month I could hold a line. Buuuuut I hope we keep the 0 hour clause. Sounds cool.

Also with reserve. Yes it’s pretty easy to manipulate your schedule. It has become more difficult as we become short on crews but you can, subject to limitations, swap reserve days, drop reserve days, pick up open time on days off, aggressive reserve (pick up open time trips while on reserve the day prior to their beginning), and get released early. It’s not perfect and I have ideas to improve it but it’s not too bad.


I really hope we stand together and fight to make this place awesome. The prospective seniority lists that circulated today were based on relative % and DOH. I only was 16# apart from each method. In short I (mostly) don’t care how they integrate as long as we keep growing. That will only happen if we take the best of both contracts and make this place the envy of our competition. I look forward to Frontspears continued success.

I’m not going to tell them how to run their business. If they want to run the airline on a skeleton crew that’s fine, I just want to be compensated for my trouble cleaning up their messes for hours every month trying to make sure the plane is legal, we are legal, and our passengers get where they need to go safely. I expect to be paid more than those that have quality resources at their disposal. It’s really that simple.

my mans!!!!! He’s back! deeZ nutz

sorry F9 guys but that is bad. Very bad, lol

So leave it to you to toss the grenade and get it going. You never cease to amaze me. Go back to our page and defend Constance’s actions in nyc instead of starting a fight here

Not much to talk about with the SLI… ALPA to ALPA. If you look at both list, your seniority based on DOH a lone will give you almost the same % within the new mega ULCC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

The difference in flexibility between Spirit and F9 is simple

At Spirit you can drop as much flying as the system will allow and never hear a word from a manager Chief pilot or the training department unless you're going to dequal.

At F9, if you don't maintain at least 60 hours per month 6 months a year, and 70 hours per month 6 months per year, expect to hear from your Chief pilot.

The work-life balance at Spirit is far superior.

so which one are you going to apply to? Or are they both still too unprofessional for you?

Just want to pop in and say that I am so pleased how well everyone is working together so far. If we can keep this up as a pilot group, we will be in for a big win. Together we are much better than seperated. Thankfully the differences in our current contracts are small, so this should go fairly smoothly, at least on our end. Glad to be partnering up with the F9'ers.

this 👆🏻………….

yeah




…..

Hello fellow F9'ers. Looking forward to working with y'all. Just a few questions/rumors I've heard.

Is it true that it's 50% scheduled deadhead pay? I read that in the contract comparison our union put out and my eyes almost popped out of my head.

Also do they really make you pay for your snacks while flying?

That being said your 125% over 82 hours with our green/red, dropping to zero, and 200% premium pay would be great.

I would definitely not call that "far superior".

It is better, and as an F9 I agree that we should be able to drop lower and would be interested in retaining zero in the spirit contract.

No, DH is 100%

Supposed to pay for snack. 50% discount.

sure OldmN - regardless, for a qualified pilot, ULCC/Legacy/Cargo/fractional/135 - all look same. The paint on the plane matters not. Qualified pilots will choose where they hang their hat based on QoL, pay, progression prospects etc. If ULCC management wants to say "we pay like ULCC", then they will perish - plain and simple.

Hopefully, we are all experienced enough to know...

I'll say it anyways...

For the love of all that is holy to you - do not publically state what you are willing accept.
Please keep the topics simply - what you like and don't like about your carrier's contract - so that we can decide what we do and don't like and can communicate that to our respective representatives.

I believe if we do that, we can most certainly have an industry leading contract.

Not to be a Debbie downer, but you realize both airlines lost money last year, right?

So, the least amount you are allowed to fly in a year is 780 hours? Being allowed to drop to zero is FAR superior. Many at NK are hard NOs on any contract that gives up this language.

Pretty sure that’s not correct. 25.m is monthly opentime language which doesn’t exist now. Unfortunately it’s true with the flica fence. Might be part of a recent clarification loa? It’s been a point of contention. Moving along.

understood but it has nothing to do with block. It’s credit.

I think everyone can agree dropping to 0 is better and I don’t think there’s a single guy at F9 that will argue otherwise unless the new negotiated rules really screw up the reserve grid (red/green as you call it).

What we are saying is our QOL isn’t as bad as may have been led on, which is a good thing, because it is less of a gap to negotiate.

Historically drop/swap have been very easy tools to use at F9.

We haven’t even got to the hard stuff yet. Like reassignment. Lol.

I live far enough from base that driving for 3-4 day trips is no big deal, but driving out for 1-2 day trips would quickly suck. Are people wanting to fight to preserve the minimum 4 days off after a trip guarantee, both for itself and to prevent Sprontier from going to a day trip model?

Most did……

You’re going to find that the day trip model is pretty contentious. Commuters hate it, people that live far away hate it. Personally, when i lived in base I had the best QOL I could have ever hoped for and got a ton of days off per month to boot with day trips.

That being said, they did do a decent job of blending the percent trips to something like 40% 1 Day, 25% 2 Day, 25% 3 Day, 10% 4 Day (generally speaking). It seemed like everyone got a little bit of what they wanted but where the commuters were most mad was how productive the day trips were in comparison to the multi-day pairings.

At Frontier Average credit per day went down something like .5 hours per day of a trip. So a 1 day could be damn near 7hr credit / day versus a 4 day being something like 5.5hr credit/day. Some captains found it was better to do hotels/crash pad to make more money at work by picking up turns.

This is particularly true for the newer bases at Frontier, FWIW YMMV.

You can see our average trip breakdown in the “Day turns” thread under the frontier section.

I was looking at that and something like 80% of the trips at the base by me are 1-2 day trips. That's what made me concerned, it would really reduce my QOL, and QOL was my reason to go to Spirit. I can see how it would be nice if you live *right* by the airport, but 1-2 hours out plus traffic (or commuting) it seems it would quickly start to suck.

100%. Well, it remains to be seen what will be the dominant schedules once the merger actually happens. It might be worth contacting your rep eventually and stating how important the 4 days off between work might be for you going forward. That’s the only thing I could think that would curb the day turns thats in the unions control.

You might have language that dictates required trip composition percentages? No idea but it’s common.

Does Spirit have trip and/or duty rigs?

Of course.

Thanks, Spirit has both? What are the rigs?

this guys new

1:2 duty
1:3.5 trip

Which I believe are better than current F9 contract rigs

Thanks just found it here...this compares a lot of factors:

SPIRIT PILOTS’ CONTRACT COMPARISON
SPIRIT AIRLINES MEC
https://ravencareers.com/wp-content/...1632627896.pdf

yeah F9 is "Greater of 1 for 6 or actual block hours" or 1:3.75 trip