Originally Posted by SlimBob (Post 3549248)

But this offer does frickall to help the company's problem. I have a friend with a class date hoping that he timed it right with the TA. With the news he's ****ed that the company doubled down on no bennies and no pay day 1. Sees the 2500 and no bennies as an insult to anyone on the outside. Where's the backfire? When the B6 deal fails? When B6 deal stalls? Both put us back at the table AND the company is still hemorrhaging FOs. While our deal isn't the best, the company really did a bangup job on their side. Maybe this is best case. I get paid and you miserable f[friend]s still leave to the legacies and I move up every month.

Originally Posted by Tx Paratroopr (Post 3549252)

My guess is the company's banking on a recession slowing hiring and there need to come back to the table to give us anything extra. Have you considered the idea that maybe the reason some of us want a better contract and are fighting so hard for a better ta is because we want a reason to stay here? Not everyone wants legacy rates because that's where they want to be. Some want it because they plan on having a long career here and want to get the most out of it I'm not sure how this concept is so hard for people here to grasp.

Originally Posted by SlimBob (Post 3549266)

The company has shown that they have no desire to move training pay up or pay bennies day 1. If we vote no or yes FOs still leave. So if we vote no this drags out for 6 more months, I lose out on $25k to gain $10/hr which will take another year to make up the difference and we'll be back at the table anyway. I wish it were higher too but because the training pay is still bad I'm leaning yes.

Originally Posted by SlimBob (Post 3549266)

The company has shown that they have no desire to move training pay up or pay bennies day 1. If we vote no or yes FOs still leave. So if we vote no this drags out for 6 more months, I lose out on $25k to gain $10/hr which will take another year to make up the difference and we'll be back at the table anyway. I wish it were higher too but because the training pay is still bad I'm leaning yes.

Originally Posted by GPullR (Post 3547614)

You don't get it. Pilots pay goes to top, guess what FAs want top pay, rampers, mechanics, etc. Overall labor bill is HUGE for any airline. I'm not not just talking about pilot pay. Total labor. Your business models thrives on lower costs which pretty much equals lower wages all around.

Originally Posted by Tx Paratroopr (Post 3549274)

The only people losing out on 25k in 6 months are first year fo's that would be moving to the new 2nd year pay scale and even that's a stretch. I don't think any other scale Is taking that big of an increase. I also don't see this dragging out as the company needs this deal more than we do. They said In the beginning they want a deal by March. For most captains to make up the difference in pay it's equal to picking up a two day or a few turns and for fo's it's even easier with 200% being handed out like candy.

Originally Posted by El Peso (Post 3549279)

What you seem to be forgetting is that the ULCC model is the most resilient and best positioned to withstand an economic downturn…

Originally Posted by CincoDeMayo (Post 3549271)

Exactly. Take the cash, let them hang themselves, and when they want to change pay again to help attrition (outside of moving 1st year pay to almost 2nd), we can discuss a mutual interest LOA.

Management “placed their order” to feed everyone but sadly they didn’t buy enough food. That’s fine, the store will still be open next year, just it will be more expensive.

Originally Posted by Tx Paratroopr (Post 3549285)

People also want to say all the legacy carriers are equal. Look at the financials of delta VS American and they are in significantly different places but AA will always pay close to delta rates to stay competitive. It has nothing to do with the type of carrier and everything to do with the mentality of the pilot group.