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- Spirit (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/spirit/)

- - AIP reached (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/spirit/140693-aip-reached.html)

That Alaska bidding language more than likely goes away (or is modified by a pbs loa) when pbs is turned on. It shouldn’t be a multi step bidding process anymore. I’ll guess that’s transition language.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tx Paratroopr (Post 3549274)

The only people losing out on 25k in 6 months are first year fo's that would be moving to the new 2nd year pay scale and even that's a stretch. I don't think any other scale Is taking that big of an increase. I also don't see this dragging out as the company needs this deal more than we do. They said In the beginning they want a deal by March. For most captains to make up the difference in pay it's equal to picking up a two day or a few turns and for fo's it's even easier with 200% being handed out like candy.

One way or another, the NK pilot group will be back at the negotiating table in 18-24 months. A 3 month delay would make sense if there were a realistic prospect of recouping in the remaining 15-21 months what was lost by not accepting the first deal, but the longer this drags out the bigger the eventual gain must be in the remaining time to justify it. And the fact that it is only a two year deal means you have to look at it differently as well.

The company recently took out a $600 million loan,

https://industry-update.com/spirit-a...w-debt/186114/

and this deal will absorb about 80% (considering finance charges) of that. MIGHT we get more of that $600 million if we turn this down? Maybe, but who knows? More than that? Not without a delay for management to come up with a new loan, because the money ain’t there until we start making a profit. And how long might that take? The only SURE things are this deal and a replay in 2 years or less in whatever the economic and pilot shortage situation exists at the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiddleEagle18 (Post 3549262)

Hope we can kill the “we don’t deserve it” attitude before JCBA.

JB has been successful in moving into the pay scales(including slope) and retirement of United, Delta, AA over the last two cycles. I expect nothing less in the next two weeks when we agree on our own extension.

Good luck with your vote.

The only reason JB has come up to legacy is because none of them have had a pay raise in 4 years. Wake up.

Would Alaska have taken our rates with our QOL flexibility? Honest question because I have no clue. But the comparable peer floor might be slightly different if you compare apples to apples.

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Peso (Post 3549279)

What you seem to be forgetting is that the ULCC model is the most resilient and best positioned to withstand an economic downturn…

tell that to the Spirit pilots that were furloughed in ‘08…

Quote:

Originally Posted by B200 Hawk (Post 3549406)

Would Alaska have taken our rates with our QOL flexibility? Honest question because I have no clue. But the comparable peer floor might be slightly different if you compare apples to apples.

I often jumpseat on Alaska. Most of the guys/gals I talk to think that the money will help their attrition only somewhat because their QOL has so little flexibility. Like at NK, the senior people will stick around because it’s too painful to start over, but they expect to continue to bleed FOs because of their work rules. Well, that and a semi-toxic relationship with management.

Here’s a short video of the Alaska COO giving the pilot picket line the hairy eyeball:

https://youtu.be/irXxA9RQyCo

Quote:

Originally Posted by B200 Hawk (Post 3549406)

Would Alaska have taken our rates with our QOL flexibility? Honest question because I have no clue. But the comparable peer floor might be slightly different if you compare apples to apples.

Here’s my answer when people talk about if it’s worth giving up some pay for the infamous NK QOL.

Go look at Delta rates, check out their 330/777/350 widebody rates. Then subtract their narrow body rates, and multiply that difference by yearly credit rates.

See we will never get widebodies at Spirit (despite well over a decade of rumors). We probably won’t at JetBlue, and even those B6 pilots who firmly believe they will have to admit it wouldn’t happen until post merger and extremely capital intensive to get any fleet to an appreciable scale…. Ten years from now at best.

So that’s the price we pay here at Spirit for our infamous QOL, the opportunity cost of the widebody pay we will never see.

I’m fine with not making what a 350 captain makes. I’m fine with not having the sophisticated product other carriers tout. I’m fine with the comments people make when they learn what company I fly for. I’m fine with always being on ghetto end of every terminal. With all that in mind, there is an updated market cost for what it costs to crew a narrowbody N-registered jet, and no one here can sell me on the idea that any QOL should make me feel comfortable accepting less than that market rate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halon1211 (Post 3549419)

tell that to the Spirit pilots that were furloughed in ‘08…

https://i.ibb.co/9HcP8FJ/916-AB3-FA-...91-EADCE87.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/N3g0CDs/EE0-E43-B7-...4-E767-A27.jpg

Another consideration

Should be a "no" vote unless snap up provision to JBLU rates is included should they get new/higher rates before the acquisition. The pilot group with the higher rates will have more leverage for the seniority integration method used when the arbitrators collaborate to come up with a fair and equitable merged seniority list.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GPullR (Post 3549360)

The only reason JB has come up to legacy is because none of them have had a pay raise in 4 years. Wake up.

Then let Spirit come up to legacy rates too. After all, the legacies haven't had a pay raise in 4 years.

And you can damn well bet B6 stood up in cold ass NY on the streets and demanded it for most of that journey to legacy rates. You get what you want when you demand it, not settle for what the company is willing to offer. Go to sleep.

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