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-   -   AIP reached (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/spirit/140693-aip-reached.html)

putzin 12-14-2022 08:30 AM


Originally Posted by Halon1211 (Post 3551565)
I think it’s funny that in the same thought you think this is a crap TA, but if this TA passes using your same logic we should still have plenty of leverage because people would still be leaving.

so in other-words, if the TA passes and the JetBlue merger fails. We go back straight to negotiations and we have just as much leverage. (Because using your logic this is a crappy TA and people will still be leaving anyways)


we are in a win-win situation if we say yes to this TA!

Please explain how we have the same leverage when the company can raise first year pay to within a percentage of second year pay? I agree it may not help attrition but it definitely helps them with attraction. We'll be negotiating for years, not months.

tom11011 12-14-2022 09:01 AM


Originally Posted by symbian simian (Post 3550180)
I think for now the company will wait and see because they think this TA is good enough to get people to stay.

Probably good enough to pass, but not good enough for people to stay.

Lakeaffect 12-14-2022 09:02 AM


Originally Posted by tom11011 (Post 3551600)
Probably good enough to pass, but not good enough for people to stay.

Good enough for enough people to stay. This passes, leverage gone.

Attrition will go down.

Halon1211 12-14-2022 09:02 AM


Originally Posted by tom11011 (Post 3551600)
Probably good enough to pass, but not good enough for people to stay.


…and that is why we STILL have leverage!!! Well said.

a win-win if this TA passes!

Halon1211 12-14-2022 09:05 AM


Originally Posted by Lakeaffect (Post 3551602)
Good enough for enough people to stay. This passes, leverage gone.

Attrition will go down.


swing and a miss…

Excargodog 12-14-2022 09:13 AM


Originally Posted by Lakeaffect (Post 3551602)
Good enough for enough people to stay. This passes, leverage gone.

Attrition will go down.

This passes it will make zero short term difference. Must be 100-120 guys with CJOs elsewhere awaiting their class dates right now. And at least as many more burnishing their resumes and prepping for interviews. I think without really major changes in benefits and compensation, NK may wind up like AK. The lifers are those with too much invested in their seniority to leave or locals who are putting up with less than the legacies because of their bases.

onedolla 12-14-2022 09:54 AM


Originally Posted by Halon1211 (Post 3551565)
I think it’s funny that in the same thought you think this is a crap TA, but if this TA passes using your same logic we should still have plenty of leverage because people would still be leaving.

so in other-words, if the TA passes and the JetBlue merger fails. We go back straight to negotiations and we have just as much leverage. (Because using your logic this is a crappy TA and people will still be leaving anyways)


we are in a win-win situation if we say yes to this TA!

I get what you’re saying (finally) but what if this does make a big dent in attrition/retention(even halving the losses)? It probably won’t, but if it does, and the leverage (of refusing to allow them to adjust first year pay without benefiting the rest) does go away for future negotiations because of that, is it still a good deal? And let’s not use any assumptions that the TPA and JCBA get accomplished quickly, raise pay, “two bites”, and all those wishes. Just this TA on its own.

Chimpy 12-14-2022 09:56 AM


Originally Posted by Excargodog (Post 3551618)
This passes it will make zero short term difference. Must be 100-120 guys with CJOs elsewhere awaiting their class dates right now. And at least as many more burnishing their resumes and prepping for interviews. I think without really major changes in benefits and compensation, NK may wind up like AK. The lifers are those with too much invested in their seniority to leave or locals who are putting up with less than the legacies because of their bases.

yeah but unlike AK we get the opportunity to negotiate with our JB brothers & sister for a JCBA

Lakeaffect 12-14-2022 10:11 AM


Originally Posted by Excargodog (Post 3551618)
This passes it will make zero short term difference. Must be 100-120 guys with CJOs elsewhere awaiting their class dates right now. And at least as many more burnishing their resumes and prepping for interviews. I think without really major changes in benefits and compensation, NK may wind up like AK. The lifers are those with too much invested in their seniority to leave or locals who are putting up with less than the legacies because of their bases.

If this passes nobody knows what will happen with hiring and attrition. You think it won’t make a difference, but Spirit thinks it will otherwise they wouldn’t offer it. I tend to agree with Spirit that it will help. But we don’t know for sure, I could be wrong. The only thing we know for sure is that we have an INSANE amount of leverage right now.

EDIT:
I think Spirit knows maybe it’s not enough, but it buys them time. If this passes, they can manage long enough till the JCBA.

Macjet 12-14-2022 12:51 PM


Originally Posted by Chimpy (Post 3551661)
yeah but unlike AK we get the opportunity to negotiate with our JB brothers & sister for a JCBA

You're assuming the B6/NK merger is approved. If it isn't, then we're stuck with this half-baked TA for years waiting for Franke and Co. to really hose us.


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