Voting opened
12-31-2022 | 03:11 PM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,748
Likes: 98
From: 1900D CA
Frontier guy here.
I have read almost all the posts on the TA threads here and on the JB section.
I just wanted to say that I feel bad for you guys. I think this vote is a really tough call. Before the JB TA, it seemed like a Yes. Take the money and go back to the table in 2 years. But after seeing the JB TA it's a tougher sell.
From a selfish standpoint as a Frontier pilot, I'd love to see you guys vote it down and get more on TA2. But I understand that the short duration makes the time value of money a tough sell on waiting 6 months when the JCBA is only 2 years away in all likelihood.
I wish you guys the best! You guys are really our only true peer group.
I have read almost all the posts on the TA threads here and on the JB section.
I just wanted to say that I feel bad for you guys. I think this vote is a really tough call. Before the JB TA, it seemed like a Yes. Take the money and go back to the table in 2 years. But after seeing the JB TA it's a tougher sell.
From a selfish standpoint as a Frontier pilot, I'd love to see you guys vote it down and get more on TA2. But I understand that the short duration makes the time value of money a tough sell on waiting 6 months when the JCBA is only 2 years away in all likelihood.
I wish you guys the best! You guys are really our only true peer group.
12-31-2022 | 03:34 PM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,457
Likes: 26
Frontier guy here.
I have read almost all the posts on the TA threads here and on the JB section.
I just wanted to say that I feel bad for you guys. I think this vote is a really tough call. Before the JB TA, it seemed like a Yes. Take the money and go back to the table in 2 years. But after seeing the JB TA it's a tougher sell.
From a selfish standpoint as a Frontier pilot, I'd love to see you guys vote it down and get more on TA2. But I understand that the short duration makes the time value of money a tough sell on waiting 6 months when the JCBA is only 2 years away in all likelihood.
I wish you guys the best! You guys are really our only true peer group.
I have read almost all the posts on the TA threads here and on the JB section.
I just wanted to say that I feel bad for you guys. I think this vote is a really tough call. Before the JB TA, it seemed like a Yes. Take the money and go back to the table in 2 years. But after seeing the JB TA it's a tougher sell.
From a selfish standpoint as a Frontier pilot, I'd love to see you guys vote it down and get more on TA2. But I understand that the short duration makes the time value of money a tough sell on waiting 6 months when the JCBA is only 2 years away in all likelihood.
I wish you guys the best! You guys are really our only true peer group.
Happy New Years!
12-31-2022 | 03:47 PM
#63
That/It/Thang
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 3,463
Likes: 275
Frontier guy here.
I have read almost all the posts on the TA threads here and on the JB section.
I just wanted to say that I feel bad for you guys. I think this vote is a really tough call. Before the JB TA, it seemed like a Yes. Take the money and go back to the table in 2 years. But after seeing the JB TA it's a tougher sell.
From a selfish standpoint as a Frontier pilot, I'd love to see you guys vote it down and get more on TA2. But I understand that the short duration makes the time value of money a tough sell on waiting 6 months when the JCBA is only 2 years away in all likelihood.
I wish you guys the best! You guys are really our only true peer group.
I have read almost all the posts on the TA threads here and on the JB section.
I just wanted to say that I feel bad for you guys. I think this vote is a really tough call. Before the JB TA, it seemed like a Yes. Take the money and go back to the table in 2 years. But after seeing the JB TA it's a tougher sell.
From a selfish standpoint as a Frontier pilot, I'd love to see you guys vote it down and get more on TA2. But I understand that the short duration makes the time value of money a tough sell on waiting 6 months when the JCBA is only 2 years away in all likelihood.
I wish you guys the best! You guys are really our only true peer group.
12-31-2022 | 03:50 PM
#64
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 462
Likes: 59
The NC has made the case, correctly, that if JBLU is $80 more an hour than we are, the argument will be made that because NK benefits so much from contractual gains, it needs to be considered when deciding on an integration methodology for the pre merger hired pilots.
12-31-2022 | 03:53 PM
#65
On Reserve
Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 190
Likes: 46
Ding ding we have a winner
Company is so concerned about first year pay that they did NOT flat increase it in this TA when they could, union wanted to. They also didn’t move training pay much at all
Doesn’t seem like they are half as concerned as some pilots are.
Bank the money, move on to the next fight
Company is so concerned about first year pay that they did NOT flat increase it in this TA when they could, union wanted to. They also didn’t move training pay much at all
Doesn’t seem like they are half as concerned as some pilots are.
Bank the money, move on to the next fight
Either get more money up front or make them remove the blank check on 1st year pay. Either way, this one has to be a no.
12-31-2022 | 04:14 PM
#66
On Reserve
Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 190
Likes: 46
Yeah I’m trying to assume a best case scenario there we can get $15 added to every rate dos and dos+1. I don’t see us having something to vote on again in just a month. Union has to poll the group sort through the result schedule meetings with the company and begin negotiating. I think 6 mo is realistically the earliest we could have a new deal. 9-12 mo is conservative.
Just looking at this financially you have to consider the opportunity cost of holding out. I think if we were considering a long term contract it makes sense to hold out, I think if we weren’t merging where we will be negotiating pay parity right after this it makes sense to hold out.
Just looking at this financially you have to consider the opportunity cost of holding out. I think if we were considering a long term contract it makes sense to hold out, I think if we weren’t merging where we will be negotiating pay parity right after this it makes sense to hold out.
12-31-2022 | 04:26 PM
#67
That/It/Thang
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 3,463
Likes: 275
the company is playing you like a fiddle. They didnt raise 1st year as high as they need because it would make the rest of the pay scale look ridiculous in comparison. They'll raise it to what they really wanted the second the TA passes.
Either get more money up front or make them remove the blank check on 1st year pay. Either way, this one has to be a no.
Either get more money up front or make them remove the blank check on 1st year pay. Either way, this one has to be a no.
Must be the fumes.
Happy New Year. Enjoy the $50k extra in 2023, brought to you by Yes voters. 😃
12-31-2022 | 04:27 PM
#68
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 1,363
Likes: 128
It’s more than the 6 months lost. Even IF you get a deal in 6 months, it’s not 6 months lost at DOS rates, it’s 6 months longer to get to the new TA DOS+1rates.
So the loss of wages also has to be figured with taking longer to get to DOS1 rates. So any TA2 rates would need to smash DOS+1 rates as well.
If it takes a year to get TA2, not only did you lose all of the year with the raise, but now the new TA2 has to best TA1 DOS+1 rates. Makes no sense when we are dealing with a 2 year deal.
So the loss of wages also has to be figured with taking longer to get to DOS1 rates. So any TA2 rates would need to smash DOS+1 rates as well.
If it takes a year to get TA2, not only did you lose all of the year with the raise, but now the new TA2 has to best TA1 DOS+1 rates. Makes no sense when we are dealing with a 2 year deal.
We could negotiate DOS + 6mo. JetBlues TA has their raises over an 18mo period. Doesn’t have to always be a year after DOS.
Saying this is a two year deal also puts a lot of faith that this merger is going to happen. I think it will but there is always a possibility it doesn’t and we will be living with this for a very long time if it doesn’t.
12-31-2022 | 04:29 PM
#69
That/It/Thang
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 3,463
Likes: 275
Why would a new deal reset DOS+1 and +2 necessarily.
We could negotiate DOS + 6mo. JetBlues TA has their raises over an 18mo period. Doesn’t have to always be a year after DOS.
Saying this is a two year deal also puts a lot of faith that this merger is going to happen. I think it will but there is always a possibility it doesn’t and we will be living with this for a very long time if it doesn’t.
We could negotiate DOS + 6mo. JetBlues TA has their raises over an 18mo period. Doesn’t have to always be a year after DOS.
Saying this is a two year deal also puts a lot of faith that this merger is going to happen. I think it will but there is always a possibility it doesn’t and we will be living with this for a very long time if it doesn’t.
So if the merger fails and we head to section 6, you want to be at 2018 rates for 3 years or TA rates for 3 years?
12-31-2022 | 04:32 PM
#70
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2022
Posts: 394
Likes: 0
Idk where you got 3 months from pretty sure they came out in august and said they’d be starting early openers. Maybe sitting down at the table took 3 months but getting all the logistics to go to the table took several more weeks like scheduling out all the meeting polling the pilot group. All that has to happen again. Clearly it’s not about polishing it up. Complainers just straight up want more money and more concession from the company. Getting that out of them won’t take a week, it won’t take 2.
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