And it’s going to increase too

AA has classes assigned now into March, so there are plenty of NK pilots with a class date/soon to be, and waiting for that two week mark to send in notice.

And honestly, why even give 2 weeks? Seems like guys would be better off waiting until the last day or so. I don’t recall anything contractually that allows a pilot to pull back their resignation if something happens to their class date. Guy gives 2 weeks, AA or UAL somehow cancels the class, NK says “nope, you resigned,” now you’re out on your butt.

Better would be to fly right before class date, drop your remaining trips, and drop letter of resignation after last trip. It’s not like they need to “train someone” to replace you.

you are not entitled to your have your vacation payed out to you if you do not give at least 2 weeks notice…

no trolling on this one…it’s in the contract…

That carrot/stick is typical of most contracts. I can even think of one that requires 30 days notice, anmd yes that bit a few folks in the butt at the start of covid.

I better get one too for my last day next month. Where do I submit a request?

I believe said captain was the LEC chair/vice chair for FLL/MCO and is heading to AA.

Exceeded per the metric in the furlough MOU. I’m sure without that agreement they would not be canceling anything. They need to shed a ton of bodies. I would not expect any adjustment on furlough numbers outside what’s required by the MOU. I fully expect another round for fall 2025 if the doors are still open.

oh good he clearly resigned his union position when he got the CJO right?

CJO = GTF out of the union. No respect for someone who doesn’t immediately step down from their union position when they clearly aren’t 100%…

joking right? these are the unique human species known as Pilots

Show me on this doll where the union hurt you.

He's not wrong. We don't need someone representing us who's halfway out the door, especially now.

26 of 52 in a recent Delta class

Tend to agree, but it could be circumstantial... if somebody stays, they should articulate why and their commitment to seeing it through to the last day. Might be useful to train others, etc.

This is an unusual situation... there are people leaving who don't want to leave...

Like that dude that harrassed everyone to vote yes on the TA while exiting to delta . Never forget LOL

First, he never harassed anyone to vote for the TA. Second, every rep voted yes to the TA, they were all in agreement that this was the best that could be done at the time and they were racing against a clock for an impending JCBA. Third, how would a rep personally benefit from voting yes to a TA that he may have thought was substandard and then leave afterwards? What good would that do?

You do realize that replacing everyone at once would not exactly be ideal either. The reps and volunteers that are leaving have years of experience doing this.

It is substandard.

Yes it is. And yet, with the ability of hindsight now, had we turned it down we would be stuck with our old contract rates, which were even worse.

Two things can be true at the same time. It’s substandard AND was the best option to take. (Not a popular opinion)

I’ve had many discussions with people about this very thing and CAs thought I was misguided (regardless of which side they leaned on)

Just gotta treat them like a spouse who complains about something that has a simple solution in which paradoxically solving the “problem” will create a bigger problem for you.

“Oh, huh, I never thought about it like that, maybe you’re right” is about the only thing you can add that will be acceptable to them.

Yes it is, but that wasn't the point or the question I asked.

No offense but that cannot be said with any amount of certainty.

Management was in an unprecedented hard spot and our MEC folded too early. It was arguably the best bargaining environment that many of us will see throughout our careers, and we blew our wad way too soon just like Jim in American Pie.

Oh, huh, I never thought about it like that, Maybe you’re right.

I’m not certain of anything. But looking honestly at the whole situation. Spirit’s financial position. P&W Eng issues. Frontier’s ability to keep their rates and still grow. Historical bargaining environment is one piece of a multitude of factors.

who knows, it’s not a given that we wouldn’t have gotten anything better, I would say it seem more unlikely to think we would have gotten closer to Delta or United though.

The ability to compromise and not see everything as either right or wrong with no middle ground is a lost quality. What we got was better, but not great, but still better.

No winning with these ALPA cheerleaders. Don't even try.

What are you trying to win? At complaining that you’re mad at something that happened 2 years ago. You need people to see that you were right? Is that what you’re trying to win at. Winning at complaining is losing. Losing at complaining and realizing that complaining is a loser’s game is winning.

Who said I was mad? I find it comical now that the one that sold all the TA are leaving this dumpster fire while you guys here still defending. Get ready for the next round of concessions. I can't wait to hear you guys explain why its a good deal.

The biggest concession ever will be leaving the top of a lacking payscale to the bottom of a leading payscale. Ever done the real math on that? I’m sure you have. I’m not talking about the time to get back to where you were but actually make back what you are losing. It’s a very big number and a very long time

mad, upset, not satisfied, not happy, irritated. pick your favorite synonym, it is a required aspect of complaining. If you’re not upset then you don’t complain.

I voted No. I was a No advocate at the time. I can vote no, and then realize that the TA passed was probably good. Two things can be true at once. Many things can be true at once. I can dislike ALPA, Vote No, and still realize that the advice given at the time might have been valid.

You can also be annoyed at me, decide it’s easier to label me as an ALPA Cheerleader and still reflect later and find value in this conversation.

Complain less, Judge less, listen more, observe more

I had enough with everything from managment..alpa and the pilot group. To some, its not all about the money. 14 years here and the highest every credit was 112 ( by accident), maybe 6 JRMs total and an average of 60hrs a month. All the best for you and everyone else, youll need it.

No hard feelings with the keyboarding back and forth, good luck. Where are you going to?

no hard feeling my boy and thanks . Wasn’t easy to just leave as I’m still ****ed off that I’m put in this position. Getting hit by ted twice is enough for me. Heading over to United .

It's only 7 to 8 years at worst assuming
min guarantee and a 3 year upgrade to a nb at legacies.

Reality is much faster to recoup. Year one is a hit. After year 1, it's nbd.

I think you're missing the greater picture here. Allow me to expand on that...

We should not be beating ourselves up over the past and what could have been, but I think there is a lot to learn here moving forward. It was probably the best barganing environment that anyone of us will ever see in this career. Highly unlikely we ever see that again.

Best case scenario: We got a much more solid pay bump with extra goodies like snap up to industy average NB pay.

Worst case: We got nothing BUT we would have learned that much earlier on in the biggest legacy hiring wave in modern history. Attrition then opens up to the point that there may not even be much of an airline left for Jetblue's hypothetical merger (oh well, not our problem).

This should have been our line in the sand moment and this group chose mediocrity as usual. Not bad enough to give a lot of us the needed coersion to move on, but not great enough to get excited about either.

Just good ol' plain Jane vanilla living where every day is missionary Tuesday.


In the words of the late Sean Connery:

"Losers always whine about their best, winners go home and ******* the prom queen."

There are a lot of losers at this airline. I see it on their faces when I walk through the terminal.

For some of us, it's not just money. It's time off, AND money. Driving to work and having Independence Day, Thanksgiving and Christmas off with my family at my pay at a legacy would be difficult to achieve in such short order. I could in theory get the money if upgrades stay low (they'll likely revert to the mean), eventually the time off. Getting both would be very difficult barring a massive expansion AND massive retirements ala Covid government funded buyouts that the legacies had.

This guy gets it! Thank you! Noise is just spreading NOISE. Im not even planning on upgrading either. Schedules and holidays are my priorities now.

Absolutely this.

and add that a minority passed the TA. I don’t know the exact numbers but there are ALOT of pilots now stuck with this sub par contract who were not eligible to even vote on the TA and whose concerns were blown off by the union. Each month that passed, another what 100+ potential NO voters became eligible as they weened off both probation and the food stamp lines.

Best bargaining environment and we got the best contract of any of our careers. Not as good as Delta. But neither is FEDEX or UPS. It’s still the Best contract by a long shot of our careers. But it should have been more? Sounds like complaining to me. The TA passed, there was plenty of time to leave, but you didn’t, why? What am I missing?

2 years later and people are still complaining about this 69% pass, one guy above saying the minority voted this is 🤔

Meanwhile the company is in Ch11, the proceedings are not going as easily as they hoped, company is still bleeding cash, pilots are bailing left and right for higher ground, and bond holders will soon own the airline outright, their plans unknown.

But sure…let’s act like it’s 2023 and the big concern being more money vs voting it down.

69% of eligible voters NOT 69% of the pilot group.

You mean the ones who have more skin in the game vs the short timers......works for me!

I think the PC babies have a song about this. It's called; waaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

1604 pilots voted for
721 against.

You’re delusional if you think pilots with less than 1 year on property would have swung that by almost 900 votes “against”.