I'm not trying to be negative, I'm being realistic. This is simply a numbers game to them. Period. Are we any different than Delta, AA, JB when it comes to that? Probably not but this management team has gone above and beyond showing us that we are just a number. We are no different than gate agents, rampers, etc. We are an expense and historically spirit management will fight tooth and nail for every penny. They will also willing violate the contract when it soots them, not honoring 4 days off, fighting the bid conflicts and countless other examples.

Historically that's what Spirit does. I wish they would prove me wrong but the more emails that come out from the NC the more I think we are in it for the long run. They did no show Wednesday. That's probably just the start.

 

well said

(filler)

 

I hope that continues for you, I've seen nothing but a disaster from our HR. It took me two months and many phone calls, before I got my vacation paid out. I also got a letter from the company saying that my leave wasn't approved After I had already started receiving ltd from the outsourced company, they don't talk to each other at all. Good luck if you have any questions just ask and I will help you out if I can since I'm still dealing with it. Hope you get to feeling better soon.

 

So how does this make them different from any other airline management? You guys act like spirit is exceptional in their hatred for pilots. They all hate pilots. They all work with the same law firm. Their negotiating is all straight from Ford and Harrison.

 

"Under mediation, our demands for industry standard pay would be met by demands for industry standard work rules. That said, while our work rules will be exposed to modification in mediation, we are confident that management’s desire for substandard compensation would be equally exposed."
So when we goto mediation, I hope we also point out that spirit makes 30% profit which is double any other airline so the total compensation package should be at least 15% higher than any other airline to include the pay rate, 401k & LTD. Plus what is this "You have to give something to get something crap" Management says we have to do during the best of negotiating economic times since spirit has started? I don't hear any management say that when times are hard. It's usually give give give or we get furloughed or go bankrupt. Just like this summer, oh we are going to have a catatonic meltdown if you don't give give give. Where was management saying oh we will give you something if you give us your time off and extended duty. We did our part but management didn't do their part. So next time management says what are you going to give us for this pay increase better retirement and LTD the NC should say the assurance that when you have another IROP in the future and you WILL HAVE ONE, you won't hear every pilot's voice mail on the entire pilot seniority roster!

 

Very well said. Wish everyone here thought this way. With the profits we make and the fact that we are so far behind the industry in regards to pay, this is correct.

In regards to work rules, I am not convinced that our work rules are any better than the industry. Some of the work rules are better and some of the work rules are worse. It averages out to industry standard, in my opinion, as far as work rules go.

Example commuter policy. The industry allows a pilot to use the sick bank to compensate the pilot for a lost trip. We lose the pay if we don't make the trip.

 

Exactly we have some work rules that are better and some that are worse. It all averages out. For some reason many guys here think we have some amazing contract that is industry leading except pay. Simply not true. And the NC is selling that too

 

As a commuter the four days off is the trump card, the 2 of Spades if you will. The transition conflict is the Ace of Spades. The line bidding is also pretty high up there. Those three little nuggets in our contract make our work rules better than pretty much everywhere else. The rest of the contract is pretty close to everyone else, some thing's are better, some are worse. But, those guaranteed four days off, the transition conflict and line bidding put our contract up on top of the pile as far as qol goes.

 

Im willing to bet SWA guys probably average somewhere around 4 days off between pairings, and I doubt they have back to back 3-days, or a 4-day, followed by a 2-day. They also have some pretty rock solid trip rigs......................................and their hourly rate is significantly higher than ours.

I hit conflicts every month, and im the first one to say sell it, it requires sacrificing the entire month. Take the "cost" and put it into the rates or something that benefits all of us

 

Im sure SWA guys get four days off, but they could certainly get lines where they only get two days off or one day off between pairings. They don't have a guarantee of four days off between pairings. I really don't know what they have, I know we have four days off, line bidding and transition conflict and those items are irreplaceable. We get rid of those items for a higher pay rate, we might as well all move on to another airline. Scope, LTD, merger protection are all important, but nothing can replace those three important qol items. Anything that touches any of those three items, its a no vote for me. A NO vote that I will work strenuously and tirelessly to try to influence other pilots to vote NO on as well. As far as I'm concerned, those three items are not touchable and are not on the table.