Spirit of NKS
09-28-2015 | 08:55 AM
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From: Low paid Airbus gear slinger
You started off on the right track, then went sideways with this comment,
The lack of true unity building events/exercises/activities is the primary signpost to me that we were in trouble from the beginning. THAT lack is what has me worried.
Under the RLA, we have almost zero leverage in negotiations. We are legally bound to work according to our past amendable date CBA. We can't walk away, we can't wildcat strike, we can't pull of CHAOS. We just can't withhold our services.
Which leaves us where? How do we obtain leverage?
1. The free market can grant us an advantage. When the company is unable to fill seats due to their lack of competitiveness in the job market, then the company will have to improve conditions to attract candidates. That's not really "leverage" but it certainly works in our favor.
2. We threaten to strike. BTW, a strike is not "leverage", a strike is a failure of negotiations. The THREAT of the strike is the leverage, not the strike. (That statement comes directly from the ALPA SPSC National Chair in 2007, and from the ALPA National staff negotiation trainer of the same era)
So where am I going with this you ask. Here >>>>To present a credible threat to the company, the pilot group has to become accustomed to acting per MEC direction, to moving together when the MEC says move, to follow the leadership closely enough to scare the company into believing - to accepting - that the pilots can pull off a successful strike.
We win, when the company realizes that a strike will cost them more than paying us not to strike, and that realization causes them to pay up rather than face a strike. In short, we need the unity events to build that unity and to show the company our resolve to improve our contract.
PS, we need unity events, NOT roadshows of a non existent TA.
The lack of true unity building events/exercises/activities is the primary signpost to me that we were in trouble from the beginning. THAT lack is what has me worried.
Under the RLA, we have almost zero leverage in negotiations. We are legally bound to work according to our past amendable date CBA. We can't walk away, we can't wildcat strike, we can't pull of CHAOS. We just can't withhold our services.
Which leaves us where? How do we obtain leverage?
1. The free market can grant us an advantage. When the company is unable to fill seats due to their lack of competitiveness in the job market, then the company will have to improve conditions to attract candidates. That's not really "leverage" but it certainly works in our favor.
2. We threaten to strike. BTW, a strike is not "leverage", a strike is a failure of negotiations. The THREAT of the strike is the leverage, not the strike. (That statement comes directly from the ALPA SPSC National Chair in 2007, and from the ALPA National staff negotiation trainer of the same era)
So where am I going with this you ask. Here >>>>To present a credible threat to the company, the pilot group has to become accustomed to acting per MEC direction, to moving together when the MEC says move, to follow the leadership closely enough to scare the company into believing - to accepting - that the pilots can pull off a successful strike.
We win, when the company realizes that a strike will cost them more than paying us not to strike, and that realization causes them to pay up rather than face a strike. In short, we need the unity events to build that unity and to show the company our resolve to improve our contract.
PS, we need unity events, NOT roadshows of a non existent TA.
09-28-2015 | 10:52 AM
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From: Low paid Airbus gear slinger
I went back and just read what I wrote and even I wasn't sure what I meant. What I meant by the unity sessions is, what changed? There was so much talk of meeting before the amendable date, how much ground work was being done, how much goodwill there was between the company and the pilots. Are we, as pilots asking SO much from the company that there's no way the company can give us what we deserve? I highly doubt it, especially pay wise. This company is practically printing money and no one really believes that's going to end, pay raises and retirement isn't going to out much of a dent in returns or profits. My guess is, there's some future planning going on that what we're asking for, whether it be in the form of scope of merger language that the company can't possibly agree. So, I go back to the unity meetings. Did the NC and MEC know something they weren't telling us? No I'm not wearing a tin hat, yes I do love me some conspiracies, but the last email stating modest progress yet significant differences remain sounds like this will become fairly protracted.
09-28-2015 | 11:11 AM
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I went back and just read what I wrote and even I wasn't sure what I meant. What I meant by the unity sessions is, what changed? There was so much talk of meeting before the amendable date, how much ground work was being done, how much goodwill there was between the company and the pilots. Are we, as pilots asking SO much from the company that there's no way the company can give us what we deserve? I highly doubt it, especially pay wise. This company is practically printing money and no one really believes that's going to end, pay raises and retirement isn't going to out much of a dent in returns or profits. My guess is, there's some future planning going on that what we're asking for, whether it be in the form of scope of merger language that the company can't possibly agree. So, I go back to the unity meetings. Did the NC and MEC know something they weren't telling us? No I'm not wearing a tin hat, yes I do love me some conspiracies, but the last email stating modest progress yet significant differences remain sounds like this will become fairly protracted.
09-28-2015 | 11:33 AM
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 568
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From: A320
You started off on the right track, then went sideways with this comment,
The lack of true unity building events/exercises/activities is the primary signpost to me that we were in trouble from the beginning. THAT lack is what has me worried.
Under the RLA, we have almost zero leverage in negotiations. We are legally bound to work according to our past amendable date CBA. We can't walk away, we can't wildcat strike, we can't pull of CHAOS. We just can't withhold our services.
Which leaves us where? How do we obtain leverage?
1. The free market can grant us an advantage. When the company is unable to fill seats due to their lack of competitiveness in the job market, then the company will have to improve conditions to attract candidates. That's not really "leverage" but it certainly works in our favor.
2. We threaten to strike. BTW, a strike is not "leverage", a strike is a failure of negotiations. The THREAT of the strike is the leverage, not the strike. (That statement comes directly from the ALPA SPSC National Chair in 2007, and from the ALPA National staff negotiation trainer of the same era)
So where am I going with this you ask. Here >>>>To present a credible threat to the company, the pilot group has to become accustomed to acting per MEC direction, to moving together when the MEC says move, to follow the leadership closely enough to scare the company into believing - to accepting - that the pilots can pull off a successful strike.
We win, when the company realizes that a strike will cost them more than paying us not to strike, and that realization causes them to pay up rather than face a strike. In short, we need the unity events to build that unity and to show the company our resolve to improve our contract.
PS, we need unity events, NOT roadshows of a non existent TA.
The lack of true unity building events/exercises/activities is the primary signpost to me that we were in trouble from the beginning. THAT lack is what has me worried.
Under the RLA, we have almost zero leverage in negotiations. We are legally bound to work according to our past amendable date CBA. We can't walk away, we can't wildcat strike, we can't pull of CHAOS. We just can't withhold our services.
Which leaves us where? How do we obtain leverage?
1. The free market can grant us an advantage. When the company is unable to fill seats due to their lack of competitiveness in the job market, then the company will have to improve conditions to attract candidates. That's not really "leverage" but it certainly works in our favor.
2. We threaten to strike. BTW, a strike is not "leverage", a strike is a failure of negotiations. The THREAT of the strike is the leverage, not the strike. (That statement comes directly from the ALPA SPSC National Chair in 2007, and from the ALPA National staff negotiation trainer of the same era)
So where am I going with this you ask. Here >>>>To present a credible threat to the company, the pilot group has to become accustomed to acting per MEC direction, to moving together when the MEC says move, to follow the leadership closely enough to scare the company into believing - to accepting - that the pilots can pull off a successful strike.
We win, when the company realizes that a strike will cost them more than paying us not to strike, and that realization causes them to pay up rather than face a strike. In short, we need the unity events to build that unity and to show the company our resolve to improve our contract.
PS, we need unity events, NOT roadshows of a non existent TA.
I agree, we have zero leverage now. Attrition is a trickle, hiring is a boom, 61% of us actually filled out the alpa survey,
and 70% voted yes on a POS DL LOA! I've also heard the unity event turn out hasn't been great. Which tells me most pilots here don't care!
The company sees us as a weak self serving bunch. We are effed- Contract 2020 here we come!
Or when our stock drops below $40 a share, Frontier will welcome us with open arms.
09-28-2015 | 11:38 AM
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 568
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From: A320
I went back and just read what I wrote and even I wasn't sure what I meant. What I meant by the unity sessions is, what changed? There was so much talk of meeting before the amendable date, how much ground work was being done, how much goodwill there was between the company and the pilots. Are we, as pilots asking SO much from the company that there's no way the company can give us what we deserve? I highly doubt it, especially pay wise. This company is practically printing money and no one really believes that's going to end, pay raises and retirement isn't going to out much of a dent in returns or profits. My guess is, there's some future planning going on that what we're asking for, whether it be in the form of scope of merger language that the company can't possibly agree. So, I go back to the unity meetings. Did the NC and MEC know something they weren't telling us? No I'm not wearing a tin hat, yes I do love me some conspiracies, but the last email stating modest progress yet significant differences remain sounds like this will become fairly protracted.
We are far apart. When the company NO SHOWS a planned day of negotiations, we are way off!!!!! Don't be fooled. There are no further planned negotiations either!
09-28-2015 | 11:51 AM
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Did I miss the news that said they no showed
09-28-2015 | 11:55 AM
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09-28-2015 | 11:56 AM
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From: A320
09-28-2015 | 12:14 PM
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09-28-2015 | 12:18 PM
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