You are crazy. Replacements? In how much time? In a month? This airline can't afford 1 week of a work stoppage without shutting down, neither they can get 480 pilots through initial training in 30 days.
If we don't vote solid YES... we are doomed. Prepare to be the lowest paid airline pilot in the industry, forever.
We must show unity and that we are not fooling around. Enough is enough. Management's bad faith on the bargaining table has gone to far. I've personally seen it...
We need to show them we are unified and that the majority voted YES. Then, they will sit down to talk and not just BS...


Peace!

 

The status quo is always the path of least resistence...

You may not love the union.. you may not agree with them.. but this strike vote is not the forum for expressing your distaste for their actions.

51% will get an authorization for a release, but the message it sends is weakened.

The vote has already been called.. so it's too late to debate the timing of it, all we can do now is stand together.

I would much rather vote yes against my better judgement if it would help than vote no in order to say "i told you so"

 

deleted...

 

I can't believe what I'm hearing on this board, but it's probably the same 3 guys with 5 identities on the Spirit Board. Next time you walk through any terminal and see another comparable aircraft or pilot, I hope you can hold your head up high knowing that your making 13-23% less based on your respective position. What do the pilots at JBLU, AA, SWA, etc. do that we don't?

Who said the company is going to replace us? Has anyone from the company publicly said this? Like a previous poster said, do you think they will be able to replace over 480 of us? At what cost? If they some how managed to find replacements, who is going to sign them off? I can't imagine the FAA letting replacements fly into GUA, SJO, MED or BOG.

The company is making money and can afford to give us a fair contract. Obviously they're not negotiating in good faith, so now it's up to us to give them a push. Peace.

 

Well said, StangDriver

 

Taylorjets- I'm not attacking you, but you said something interesting. You said we need to know the facts before we vote. The "PREPARE" stuff was supposed to whip us into a frenzy. They stopped putting it out, so I don't know the whole C9, but I think it was even worse than what I read about it.

The main things in my mind are the facts that the company wants to basically make this an at will job. Even eliminating non economic stuff like the HIMS program and PRO STANS, will make this a job where if the company doesn't like you they can get rid of you without any reason. It will make this not a place I want to work, economy or no economy. Even the senior guys (you know the golden 50) now realize that they are vulnerable to this kind of wholesale destruction and many of them are now rethinking their positions.

To me the facts are
-the company arbitrarily changed the wheel roll (the way we get paid)
-tried to take away 4 days off
-stalls at every negotiating meeting with either no proposal or something rediculous
-was told by the mediator to "get off the BS" because of their tactics
-Tried to make us pay for our own hotels during training
-the C9 proposal is not the basis for an agreement (I beleive that is bad faith)
we'll see about that one
-capt upgrades based on "who's in the club"
-seniority based on who will ***** themselves out more
-last year NOI's went out to legitimate sick calls
etc, etc

My point is the company has shown to me how the they see and treat its pilot group with a contract, I would hate to see how they would treat everyone without a contract. Our mgmt is nothing like Jet BLue. And you better believe that when a captain hits a certain seniority pay amount, they will be targeted with termination to "keep expenses low". This is what the senior guys are starting to realize. A strike vote is the only weapon we have to end this gravy train that mgmt is riding.

At my last job, we were in the same situation, and when the 30 days came and went, we did nothing. Didn't strike, and the company was so nervous about the airplanes being left at outstations, that they grounded the fleet for 72 hrs and we got almost everything we asked for. They lost almost as much in revenue as we were asking for.

Just the threat of a strike to a company is hard on ticket sales, and that would be significant pressure on one with fares as low as ours.

Just one more thing, and I don't mean to pick on you, that is not my intent, but you said we're "only" 2 years past our amendable date. Quoting a famous TV doctor who rhymes with DR. Shmil, you teach people how to treat you. Letting them think that it's ok to drag this on, we are enabling (emboldening)them to do just that. They will not up their costs until they are forced to.

Again, I am not attacking you, just getting some lively debate going.

 

Spirit is the only airline that I know of where management proposed upgrades in a non-seniority based system. There aren't any other 121 carriers or unionized carriers than I know of where management has done this recently. No regional management even goes this far. It's insulting.

This may well be a tactic to get the NK pilot group distracted from getting real gains (is negotiating capital seriously going to be spend on 'protecting' seniority based upgrades, and industry norm since the 40's?), but that it was even proposed shows you that NK management is not bargaining in good faith (it'd be like NK ALPA asking for 100% raises - sure, that's great, but that not a good faith proposal).

The idea that you have to 'get educated' is nuts. If you're an NK pilot, you're likely a college graduate getting paid more than 75% of people in the US, and entrusted with the operation of a multi-$ piece of machinery, along with over 500 lives a day. You have the intellectual capacity to do your own research, and not have to be spoon-fed.

A strike vote has been called. It does not mean you are going to strike in 30 days. But, if you are not willing to strike, then why do you even work for a unionized carrier?

Your elected representatives are asking for your support. They will NOT call for a strike if they don't think the timing is right, and the opportunity to even consider calling for a strike is a long way off still - you have to be released from mediation first. Bicker with them about other things, recall them if you wish, but don't vote with your emotions on this one. Vote as the well-educated professional that you are.

 

I'll give you two reasons: fear and selfishness

Fear is understandable... it's like going into battle for the first time. You have a lot to lose, you have people who depend on you, you have a life. Fear is a natural reaction, and shouldn't be admonished. Standing in unity should mean we help assuage their fears with reassurance. I don't look down on the guy/gal who is a little afraid of what the future holds.

Selfishness is another story. That's the cat who has an adjenda. The one who sees this as a stopover to something better. The one who is not worried about the better good for all pilots. This guy looks at his fellow pilots and see them as suckers and saps who haven't figured out how to make the system work for them. Unity is the selfish pilots biggest fear, because it may mean an end to sweetheart deals with the company, and flying below the radar on things that weaken the pilot group.

I'm not a hard core union lover. I have my own personal opinions on a lot of issues.. but 500 personal opinions will not move this pilot group forward if we can't resolve to stand up and demand to be taken seriously. This company has been like a bully on schoolyard playground.. and we've been content to just surrender our milk money everyday for two years.

 

Can probation pilots vote? I'm thinking no; haven't paid any dues. Anyone know?

 

I think you can, I don't think furloughed can