Spirit Airlines current hiring
08-19-2017 | 08:47 AM
#3701
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
From: A320 CA
I am one of those "idiot captains". I wonder, did we fly together? Do you bring up this issue when you see it or do you keep quiet and mumble under your breath about it on forums?
You might want to read this FAA interpretation...
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...rpretation.pdf
Here is this good part...
"....the aircraft can in fact be CONFIGURED to operate in accordance with the speed restrictions...Therefore the pilot must operate the aircraft in the configuration to meet the requirements..."
Or said another way, if you can put flaps out to comply, then you must.
Or said yet another way, your minimum safe airspeed has nothing to do with you being CLEAN.
Now I get it, no one seems to give a F, and you have been doing it clean and accelerating past 200 for years. That's cool, do what you want, but don't disparage a pilot for following the regs. You are the one who is not in compliance.
You might want to read this FAA interpretation...
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...rpretation.pdf
Here is this good part...
"....the aircraft can in fact be CONFIGURED to operate in accordance with the speed restrictions...Therefore the pilot must operate the aircraft in the configuration to meet the requirements..."
Or said another way, if you can put flaps out to comply, then you must.
Or said yet another way, your minimum safe airspeed has nothing to do with you being CLEAN.
Now I get it, no one seems to give a F, and you have been doing it clean and accelerating past 200 for years. That's cool, do what you want, but don't disparage a pilot for following the regs. You are the one who is not in compliance.
Nice try! Read the part that says "Unless authorized or required by ATC" part. Now read the SID chart for the ARKES DP. Note 4. It says "Accelerate to 250 WITHIN 7NM of departure. If unable advise ATC." Therefore it is a requirement which exempts aircraft from having to fly slower than 200kts.
It's that simple!
08-19-2017 | 09:33 AM
#3702
Getting Out
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 86
Likes: 40
From: A320
Nice try! Read the part that says "Unless authorized or required by ATC" part. Now read the SID chart for the ARKES DP. Note 4. It says "Accelerate to 250 WITHIN 7NM of departure. If unable advise ATC." Therefore it is a requirement which exempts aircraft from having to fly slower than 200kts.
It's that simple!
It's that simple!
08-19-2017 | 10:29 AM
#3703
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,125
Likes: 0
From: Under the Frog
I am one of those "idiot captains". I wonder, did we fly together? Do you bring up this issue when you see it or do you keep quiet and mumble under your breath about it on forums?
You might want to read this FAA interpretation...
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...rpretation.pdf
Here is this good part...
"....the aircraft can in fact be CONFIGURED to operate in accordance with the speed restrictions...Therefore the pilot must operate the aircraft in the configuration to meet the requirements..."
Or said another way, if you can put flaps out to comply, then you must.
Or said yet another way, your minimum safe airspeed has nothing to do with you being CLEAN.
Now I get it, no one seems to give a F, and you have been doing it clean and accelerating past 200 for years. That's cool, do what you want, but don't disparage a pilot for following the regs. You are the one who is not in compliance.
You might want to read this FAA interpretation...
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...rpretation.pdf
Here is this good part...
"....the aircraft can in fact be CONFIGURED to operate in accordance with the speed restrictions...Therefore the pilot must operate the aircraft in the configuration to meet the requirements..."
Or said another way, if you can put flaps out to comply, then you must.
Or said yet another way, your minimum safe airspeed has nothing to do with you being CLEAN.
Now I get it, no one seems to give a F, and you have been doing it clean and accelerating past 200 for years. That's cool, do what you want, but don't disparage a pilot for following the regs. You are the one who is not in compliance.
But hey, learn something new every day. Thanks for providing the FAA link, first I've seen it.
High five!
08-19-2017 | 11:35 AM
#3704
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
From: Computer desk
I agree also.
A side note. Departure procedures are built on standard ICAO noise abatement procedures. Most Airlines historically climb at V2 + 10 to 1500 AGL. Then accelerate to cruise climb. 200kts below 2500 feet AGL just isn't an issue in this case. Making 250 kits prior to 7 miles down range would be easy also in this scenario. At least in the Airbus 320.
But of course we live in Spirit world. So...... in 2008 our flight ops decided we should begin accelerating to cruise climb at 1000 AGL to save gas. One of many attempts to save the company from going out of business when fuel hit $140 a barrel. We never changed back. Ever since then. 200 kits in Class C/D airspace has become an issue.
Stupid.
A side note. Departure procedures are built on standard ICAO noise abatement procedures. Most Airlines historically climb at V2 + 10 to 1500 AGL. Then accelerate to cruise climb. 200kts below 2500 feet AGL just isn't an issue in this case. Making 250 kits prior to 7 miles down range would be easy also in this scenario. At least in the Airbus 320.
But of course we live in Spirit world. So...... in 2008 our flight ops decided we should begin accelerating to cruise climb at 1000 AGL to save gas. One of many attempts to save the company from going out of business when fuel hit $140 a barrel. We never changed back. Ever since then. 200 kits in Class C/D airspace has become an issue.
Stupid.
08-19-2017 | 12:06 PM
#3705
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 550
Likes: 0
From: A320 CA
And for all the "it's on the plate to accelerate to 250" guys, please list the last date you were cleared to "RNAV to ___, cleared for takeoff" out of FLL.
08-19-2017 | 01:05 PM
#3706
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,125
Likes: 0
From: Under the Frog
Maybe you should have a conversation with our POI. Or might I suggest a discussion with my ATC buddy who works in the FLL tower. You'll find those "idiots" may not share your sentiment.
And for all the "it's on the plate to accelerate to 250" guys, please list the last date you were cleared to "RNAV to ___, cleared for takeoff" out of FLL.
And for all the "it's on the plate to accelerate to 250" guys, please list the last date you were cleared to "RNAV to ___, cleared for takeoff" out of FLL.
Not quite sure how much simpler I need to get to get the point across for you...
08-19-2017 | 01:15 PM
#3707
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 550
Likes: 0
From: A320 CA
So you come out of the blue and post derogatory remarks about professional aviators that follow the rules, yet get your feelings hurt when more than one person counters you? Gotcha...
08-19-2017 | 01:21 PM
#3708
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,125
Likes: 0
From: Under the Frog
08-19-2017 | 01:28 PM
#3709
Banned
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Maybe you should have a conversation with our POI. Or might I suggest a discussion with my ATC buddy who works in the FLL tower. You'll find those "idiots" may not share your sentiment.
And for all the "it's on the plate to accelerate to 250" guys, please list the last date you were cleared to "RNAV to ___, cleared for takeoff" out of FLL.
And for all the "it's on the plate to accelerate to 250" guys, please list the last date you were cleared to "RNAV to ___, cleared for takeoff" out of FLL.
Didn't mean to start an issue, but just a question, If you get a PDC or voice clearance (IFR) for a SID, do they have to tell you where to RNAV to in order to do 250KIAS? The plate is the word of ATC so not sure how the RNAV to a fix would change that. I would definitely caution the using ATC to settle the matter. One night I was limited to below 10K due to an MEL'd altitude horn. ATC asked why we were under 10k then said " ok cleared normal speed, high speed cruise at 9,900' ". I won't say what I did next
08-19-2017 | 01:47 PM
#3710
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 550
Likes: 0
From: A320 CA
Didn't mean to start an issue, but just a question, If you get a PDC or voice clearance (IFR) for a SID, do they have to tell you where to RNAV to in order to do 250KIAS? The plate is the word of ATC so not sure how the RNAV to a fix would change that. I would definitely caution the using ATC to settle the matter. One night I was limited to below 10K due to an MEL'd altitude horn. ATC asked why we were under 10k then said " ok cleared normal speed, high speed cruise at 9,900' ". I won't say what I did next
Maybe someone else has an obscure rule or side letter on the issue, but that's how our POI and the controlling ATC personnel view it. I'll side with them.
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