Dunno but I keep hearing of MULTIPLE INITIAL failures. I thought the instructors were pretty good and found nothing really wrong with the training here. Are we really not able to attract at least average pilots, or is something else going on?????

 

This is true. Ex-Regional (Republic) Capt. and an Ex-767 FO (Japan Contract Flying). FO walked out in the middle of 2 training events.

Couldn't Cooperate and Graduate I guess.

 

Bingo. Total compensation, days off, etc. doesn't mean jack squat if you gotta spend your entire life trying to game the system to get there! We should be seeking to maximize base compensation first and foremost (on the $$ front, that is). Period. That's the only thing that benefits all NK pilots equally. Maximize the base salary/benefits, then get the best QOL possible to go along with it. Above that, if you choose to trade QOL for $$ by taking JMs, working days off, bidding conflicts, etc, more power to ya. But if you choose to have best QOL possible and still make the best $$ possible, you need to maximize base compensation.

Essentially, we should be striving to make as much money possible for minimum possible work. Everything after that is personal preference--QOL vs $$.


Sent from Airbus

 

That's hilarious. So have we already reached the bottom of the barrel with our pilot applicants? Greeeeeaaaat...

 

Not trying to pile judgement on the failure guys but as an aside, I must say my instructor that I had here was the best Ive ever experienced, and I have a lot of teaching experience. Said another way, definitely no issue with the quality of instructors in my experience.

 

I would agree with you. We have great guys in the training department!

 

I never suggested we should have to "game" the system to achieve the compensation we deserve. I'm stating my opinion that focusing solely on rate and putting all else aside is a foolish and myopic way to approach negotiations. Look! Over there! Big shiny rates, and behind the curtain management takes from other areas of compensation because of the focus solely on rates...

 

We'll have to agree to disagree... My W2, days off, quality of life, and insurance benefits are all important to me. I won't be focused on just rates and I will carefully review the full TA before voting on it. Not just the pay scale. Again that number is only one in the equation.

 

Before you agree to disagree, reread my post above ;-) Maybe you missed where I stated maximizing base compensation (which includes your insurance and other benefits) "ON THE $$ FRONT, that is." Never did I state look at only one thing ;-). Just the opposite.

I stated we should focus on the things that benefit all pilots equally (think trunk of tree) before getting caught up in the things that may or may not affect all pilots, or affect them in different ways (read branches). Does insurance, min guarantee, min days off, merger protection, etc. affect all pilots in just about the same magnitude? You betcha!

OT rates, reserve swapping, trip rigs, etc, while important, are examples of things that will affect different pilots in different ways. Obviously we will all (hopefully) look at any agreement in its entirety prior to voting, but different items will have different value to different pilots. We need to focus on the big ticket items first (the "trunk") prior to getting bogged down in the small stuff ("branches"). Just like when you negotiate a home. You first negotiate the price (most substantial aspect, of most impact to both parties), then you negotiate the important but less significant items such as title insurance, repairs, survey, leaseback, closing date, etc.

At the end of the day, both parties only sign if they feel they're getting a good deal out of it. So the trick is to give away--for a price--only what you would've been ready to give away for free in the first place (because it doesn't truly benefit you). All about appearance. Because nobody likes one-sided negotiations, if you approach something as take, take, take, you're guaranteed the other side is gonna dig in, and you'll end up losing out on gains for stuff that benefits you the most...


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Some interesting discussion happening here.

Just one thing I noticed is that people keep focusing on merger protection with scope. That is important but we don't have to merge with frontier (or Ryan air or easyjet or any airline for that matter) to codeshare with them. We have zero codeshare protection except for a frozen seniority list with no furloughs. Ask a JetBlue pilot how code sharing is working out for them. Ask them how many of their passengers connect to a widebody on some other airline. Ask a delta pilot about their air France joint venture. Ask a southwest pilot the number one reason they voted no.