Spirit of NKS, Part III
12-04-2016, 10:11 AM
#111
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 39
Looks like two (new to spirit) 319's will have foot warmers. N535nk and 536nk.
12-04-2016, 10:46 AM
#112
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
Originally Posted by The Juice
Same reason why the airline sells more seats than what is on the plane, you plan on no shows.
3 years ago they would need 22 new FOs for the month, for growth and little to zero attrition. Today they need to offer 40 a month a class date, knowing that some won't even show and to cover for much more attrition on the seniority list.
You don't hire 40 FOs and upgrade 8 when everything is "going well". It's going to get worse for them and I enjoy watching the FO class numbers increase because it sure isn't a marker of growth, more so a sign that hiring is becoming an issue.
3 years ago they would need 22 new FOs for the month, for growth and little to zero attrition. Today they need to offer 40 a month a class date, knowing that some won't even show and to cover for much more attrition on the seniority list.
You don't hire 40 FOs and upgrade 8 when everything is "going well". It's going to get worse for them and I enjoy watching the FO class numbers increase because it sure isn't a marker of growth, more so a sign that hiring is becoming an issue.
12-04-2016, 10:49 AM
#113
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,420
Originally Posted by The Juice
Same reason why the airline sells more seats than what is on the plane, you plan on no shows.
3 years ago they would need 22 new FOs for the month, for growth and little to zero attrition. Today they need to offer 40 a month a class date, knowing that some won't even show and to cover for much more attrition on the seniority list.
You don't hire 40 FOs and upgrade 8 when everything is "going well". It's going to get worse for them and I enjoy watching the FO class numbers increase because it sure isn't a marker of growth, more so a sign that hiring is becoming an issue.
3 years ago they would need 22 new FOs for the month, for growth and little to zero attrition. Today they need to offer 40 a month a class date, knowing that some won't even show and to cover for much more attrition on the seniority list.
You don't hire 40 FOs and upgrade 8 when everything is "going well". It's going to get worse for them and I enjoy watching the FO class numbers increase because it sure isn't a marker of growth, more so a sign that hiring is becoming an issue.
How do we get this analysis to investors?
12-04-2016, 11:12 AM
#114
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: Under the Frog
Posts: 1,125
Originally Posted by gonyon
How do we get this analysis to investors?
At the last investor call Bumbling Bob called us a stepping stone airline. And the investor packet touts "juniority" as one of our strengths.
Nothing would make the Three Stooges happier than to have anyone and everyone with more than 5-10 years of seniority walk out the door for greener pastures.
Investors won't care until "juniority" leaves a smoking crater on the 11 o'clock news....
12-04-2016, 12:06 PM
#115
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: A320 Right
Posts: 378
Originally Posted by gringo
Does it matter? Would it make any difference?
At the last investor call Bumbling Bob called us a stepping stone airline. And the investor packet touts "juniority" as one of our strengths.
Nothing would make the Three Stooges happier than to have anyone and everyone with more than 5-10 years of seniority walk out the door for greener pastures.
Investors won't care until "juniority" leaves a smoking crater on the 11 o'clock news....
At the last investor call Bumbling Bob called us a stepping stone airline. And the investor packet touts "juniority" as one of our strengths.
Nothing would make the Three Stooges happier than to have anyone and everyone with more than 5-10 years of seniority walk out the door for greener pastures.
Investors won't care until "juniority" leaves a smoking crater on the 11 o'clock news....
Could all these decisions be based solely on positioning us for a sale or merger? Better than 50/50 I think.
12-04-2016, 12:15 PM
#116
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: A320
Posts: 694
Originally Posted by gringo
At the last investor call Bumbling Bob called us a stepping stone airline.
12-04-2016, 01:24 PM
#117
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 143
Originally Posted by Judge Smails
In all fairness, and I listened to the last conference call, Bumbling Bob did not call us a stepping stone airline. I'm the last person to defend management, but that statement did not happen.
Jamie N. Baker - JPMorgan Securities LLC
Hey. Good morning, everybody. Bob, a question on how you intend to position Spirit within the industry. I mean for passengers and investors, you made it clear. I'm wondering about the pilot perspective. On one hand, you may want to keep Spirit as sort of a springboard to more lucrative mainland flying, you know place where you move quickly into the left seat and then on to greener pastures. The other extreme you may want it to be considered the first and final place that pilots live out their career. So any one of us can draw conclusions on what happens in terms of future labor costs, but understanding how you feel Spirit should be positioned in the eyes of aviators could help us with that process.
Robert L. Fornaro - Spirit Airlines, Inc.
Well, it's – Jamie, it's a good question. It's also a tricky question because we are in mediation and that process does take time. I think, again, as a starting point given the trends of pilot pay is moving up, and now we're towards the bottom with Frontier on the low end. And so we expect and believe our pilots deserve a raise, but we also have to look at some of the underlying work rules that go with the agreements.
And I guess the one comment I would make is we think there's a lot of opportunities where our contract is deficient (48:45) versus some of the other carriers in terms of work rules, in terms of some of the ability to run the airline. And we think and, quite frankly, we're willing to trade off increases for some of that flexibility that we should have. Again, our contracts were not written for the carrier that we've become. So we're not working off a blueprint.
And so we think there's a real opportunity here for the company to get substantial benefit and for our pilots to get good increases. And I think, again, that will create some cost but perhaps not as much as you might expect because we think there's a lot of opportunity to reduce our pilot efficiency. Okay?
12-04-2016, 01:48 PM
#118
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: Under the Frog
Posts: 1,125
Originally Posted by Judge Smails
In all fairness, and I listened to the last conference call, Bumbling Bob did not call us a stepping stone airline. I'm the last person to defend management, but that statement did not happen.
Originally Posted by SkywardAZ
He sidestepped the question completely. It was a reporter who asked about being a stepping stone.
But the "Investor Presentation" provided on the investor relations part of our website says it all.
"Juniority."
They don't want us to stay.
12-04-2016, 02:24 PM
#119
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,577
Originally Posted by SkywardAZ
... that will create some cost but perhaps not as much as you might expect...
At least he didn't say "cost neutral."
12-04-2016, 04:24 PM
#120
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 319/320/321...whatever it takes.
Posts: 492
Originally Posted by SkywardAZ
He sidestepped the question completely. It was a reporter who asked about being a stepping stone.
Jamie N. Baker - JPMorgan Securities LLC
Hey. Good morning, everybody. Bob, a question on how you intend to position Spirit within the industry. I mean for passengers and investors, you made it clear. I'm wondering about the pilot perspective. On one hand, you may want to keep Spirit as sort of a springboard to more lucrative mainland flying, you know place where you move quickly into the left seat and then on to greener pastures. The other extreme you may want it to be considered the first and final place that pilots live out their career. So any one of us can draw conclusions on what happens in terms of future labor costs, but understanding how you feel Spirit should be positioned in the eyes of aviators could help us with that process.
Robert L. Fornaro - Spirit Airlines, Inc.
Well, it's – Jamie, it's a good question. It's also a tricky question because we are in mediation and that process does take time. I think, again, as a starting point given the trends of pilot pay is moving up, and now we're towards the bottom with Frontier on the low end. And so we expect and believe our pilots deserve a raise, but we also have to look at some of the underlying work rules that go with the agreements.
And I guess the one comment I would make is we think there's a lot of opportunities where our contract is deficient (48:45) versus some of the other carriers in terms of work rules, in terms of some of the ability to run the airline. And we think and, quite frankly, we're willing to trade off increases for some of that flexibility that we should have. Again, our contracts were not written for the carrier that we've become. So we're not working off a blueprint.
And so we think there's a real opportunity here for the company to get substantial benefit and for our pilots to get good increases. And I think, again, that will create some cost but perhaps not as much as you might expect because we think there's a lot of opportunity to reduce our pilot efficiency. Okay?
Jamie N. Baker - JPMorgan Securities LLC
Hey. Good morning, everybody. Bob, a question on how you intend to position Spirit within the industry. I mean for passengers and investors, you made it clear. I'm wondering about the pilot perspective. On one hand, you may want to keep Spirit as sort of a springboard to more lucrative mainland flying, you know place where you move quickly into the left seat and then on to greener pastures. The other extreme you may want it to be considered the first and final place that pilots live out their career. So any one of us can draw conclusions on what happens in terms of future labor costs, but understanding how you feel Spirit should be positioned in the eyes of aviators could help us with that process.
Robert L. Fornaro - Spirit Airlines, Inc.
Well, it's – Jamie, it's a good question. It's also a tricky question because we are in mediation and that process does take time. I think, again, as a starting point given the trends of pilot pay is moving up, and now we're towards the bottom with Frontier on the low end. And so we expect and believe our pilots deserve a raise, but we also have to look at some of the underlying work rules that go with the agreements.
And I guess the one comment I would make is we think there's a lot of opportunities where our contract is deficient (48:45) versus some of the other carriers in terms of work rules, in terms of some of the ability to run the airline. And we think and, quite frankly, we're willing to trade off increases for some of that flexibility that we should have. Again, our contracts were not written for the carrier that we've become. So we're not working off a blueprint.
And so we think there's a real opportunity here for the company to get substantial benefit and for our pilots to get good increases. And I think, again, that will create some cost but perhaps not as much as you might expect because we think there's a lot of opportunity to reduce our pilot efficiency. Okay?
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
