Spirit of NKS, Part III
12-03-2016 | 05:07 AM
#81
Banned
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Upgrade is currently at 5 years and plummeting.
And when will that January 2011 Captain award actually go to training? I have a good friend in training today, he got the award for the 175 in February. He has really enjoyed the upgrade on paper for the last 11 months while still making FO pay.
Shrinking has stopped. Growth coming.
30 more CRJ's to leave (3 of which leave on January 1). 14 more 145's to go to PDT. 140's Getting parked in the desert for good.
5 year captain pay at Envoy won't matter compared to Spirit FO pay when you upgrade in 1.5 and flow in 5 years and change.
The last captain to flow for November was a 2000 hire. The most junior captain flying the line is a 2008 hire.
I'm just saying Envoy is a great option for you guys to get out of that cesspool and get to AA. If you made the move today, you would likely be at American before your new contract is TA'd.
You sound new, go read your section of the flow through agreement and then compare it to the 824 Arbitration award from a federal judge and then go compare it to the protected pilot agreement which was a settlement. You'll see your "post TA signing," metered 25% flow, dangling carrot can be stopped or destroyed for just about anything......merger, buy out, critical staffing. In the mean time enjoy the 11 days off a month, the "denied due to staffing" crew scheduling responses, and the lost overnights to Laredo.
And when will that January 2011 Captain award actually go to training? I have a good friend in training today, he got the award for the 175 in February. He has really enjoyed the upgrade on paper for the last 11 months while still making FO pay.
Shrinking has stopped. Growth coming.
30 more CRJ's to leave (3 of which leave on January 1). 14 more 145's to go to PDT. 140's Getting parked in the desert for good.
5 year captain pay at Envoy won't matter compared to Spirit FO pay when you upgrade in 1.5 and flow in 5 years and change.
The last captain to flow for November was a 2000 hire. The most junior captain flying the line is a 2008 hire.
I'm just saying Envoy is a great option for you guys to get out of that cesspool and get to AA. If you made the move today, you would likely be at American before your new contract is TA'd.
You sound new, go read your section of the flow through agreement and then compare it to the 824 Arbitration award from a federal judge and then go compare it to the protected pilot agreement which was a settlement. You'll see your "post TA signing," metered 25% flow, dangling carrot can be stopped or destroyed for just about anything......merger, buy out, critical staffing. In the mean time enjoy the 11 days off a month, the "denied due to staffing" crew scheduling responses, and the lost overnights to Laredo.
12-03-2016 | 05:55 AM
#82
flamed out & inverted
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
From: Lav
about the 214 vs 67 thing. Thats a net of 147. So 147 new FOs vs how many experienced that left. Of the 147 FOs hired a good 50+ arent even on OE yet. It takes about 6 weeks or more to finish training with about 16 hired every 2 weeks makes 48 right there, with backup and another 16 on OE your closer to 60 not signed off yet. So we are getting close to 20 new FOs onboard and about 6 experienced FOs and CA that are leaving each month net up 13-14 of which 6 aren't signed off yet. The experienced ones KNOW whats going on here, the new FOs THINK they know.
There are awesome crews here, like relationships borne in battle, bonding is getting strong IMHO. But we each have families that management frankly doesn't give a crap about and unlike other airlines the management here hasn't realized the airline runs on the backs of good employees and not the brilliance they assume they have in management.
If you are thinking of coming here, realize it should be option 17 after getting an MBA and leaving the industry in the rearview mirror. If you're under 50 or so and still here-you're leaving millions in retirement alone on the table that your family will never benefit from. Good luck to us all.
There are awesome crews here, like relationships borne in battle, bonding is getting strong IMHO. But we each have families that management frankly doesn't give a crap about and unlike other airlines the management here hasn't realized the airline runs on the backs of good employees and not the brilliance they assume they have in management.
If you are thinking of coming here, realize it should be option 17 after getting an MBA and leaving the industry in the rearview mirror. If you're under 50 or so and still here-you're leaving millions in retirement alone on the table that your family will never benefit from. Good luck to us all.
Last edited by 4fun; 12-03-2016 at 06:14 AM.
12-03-2016 | 07:02 AM
#83
Line Holder
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
I agree with ramrod.
At some point it stops being a joke and you start to believe it.
Even if you sport it ironically it's still as stupid as beanie when it's 90 degrees out.
Even if our management thinks we are low tier we need to be professionals. Dress for the job you want. This is as bad as the FO that carries his iPad in a string gym backpack or the pilot that carries his around in the back of his pants, or the guys that wear black sneakers, or the yellower than white shirt I saw today. Sure, maybe the public doesn't give a fukc but when we display ourselves as a bunch of idiots that don't know what the hell we're doing pretty hard to win hearts and minds while trying to get a 100% raise.
The lanyard says "not discount pilots". Let's not prove we are. Be a professional, act like a professional, work like a professional. If we go out late, go out late. If they can't cover flights, then they can't cover it. If they can't keep an airplane maintained to avoid a bunch of write ups on every leg for every little lite or placard or major discrepancy, then that's their problem. It's our job to hold them accountable because we are the professionals they hired to do that. That's why we demand to be paid like professionals.
Delta just ratified a nice contract. Their management didn't want to give it to them. Maybe it (the way they present themselves and operate in the cockpit) didn't help them at all, but do you think if they looked like a bunch of 36th street cargo hacks it would have?
Our CEO sees us that way. He wants to pay us that way. Let's not embrace it with a bag tag that goes past an inside joke and makes it a reality.
At some point it stops being a joke and you start to believe it.
Even if you sport it ironically it's still as stupid as beanie when it's 90 degrees out.
Even if our management thinks we are low tier we need to be professionals. Dress for the job you want. This is as bad as the FO that carries his iPad in a string gym backpack or the pilot that carries his around in the back of his pants, or the guys that wear black sneakers, or the yellower than white shirt I saw today. Sure, maybe the public doesn't give a fukc but when we display ourselves as a bunch of idiots that don't know what the hell we're doing pretty hard to win hearts and minds while trying to get a 100% raise.
The lanyard says "not discount pilots". Let's not prove we are. Be a professional, act like a professional, work like a professional. If we go out late, go out late. If they can't cover flights, then they can't cover it. If they can't keep an airplane maintained to avoid a bunch of write ups on every leg for every little lite or placard or major discrepancy, then that's their problem. It's our job to hold them accountable because we are the professionals they hired to do that. That's why we demand to be paid like professionals.
Delta just ratified a nice contract. Their management didn't want to give it to them. Maybe it (the way they present themselves and operate in the cockpit) didn't help them at all, but do you think if they looked like a bunch of 36th street cargo hacks it would have?
Our CEO sees us that way. He wants to pay us that way. Let's not embrace it with a bag tag that goes past an inside joke and makes it a reality.
12-03-2016 | 09:01 AM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,114
Likes: 0
From: A320 Captain
You are very new to all of this. Especially if you think AA is so great.
Last edited by dn_wisconsin; 12-03-2016 at 09:41 AM.
12-03-2016 | 09:51 AM
#88
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 944
Likes: 258
From: A320
Dude...relax yourself. As great as you think Envoy is (all regionals suck), you're not convincing a single pilot here to leave this place for a whipsaw job doing 6 legs a day in an RJ. This career is about upward movement. Your flow through agreement is not as much of a sure thing as you would like to believe. You're also assuming it's going to take another 5 years for us to get a contract here, which isnt going to happen.
12-03-2016 | 11:24 AM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 219
Likes: 0
I was thinking about bag tags for those who have left NK. Mesa had LAMA-life after mesa airlines. I was thinking for the guys who escape this place. FELTS- Finally escaped low tier status?
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