Winning
06-30-2018, 05:02 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: The GF of FUPM
Posts: 3,073
[QUOTE=FliesInSoup;2625231]Looks as though some pilots are wanting to recoup 2% of their wages now in favor of giving up 50% of their wages later; not to mention their QOL...[/QUOTE
Worth repeating. Frank Lorenzo would love some of these guys.
Worth repeating. Frank Lorenzo would love some of these guys.
06-30-2018, 05:17 PM
#22
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 93
Originally Posted by APC225
Listened to an interview with Janus. Interviewer pressed him as to why he brought suit and he kept saying that by being forced to pay dues he was forced into giving up his Constitutional freedom of association, forced into giving up his Constitutional freedom of speech. Wished the interviewer had just asked, "Who forced you to work there? Why not just leave?"
S
07-01-2018, 08:56 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: 777
Posts: 2,158
Well.....union membership is optional. But the contract is a benefit. That's what agency shop is all about.
How about if you opt not to be a union member, you are no longer covered by the contract? Meaning you have to do whatever the crew desk tells you to do as long as it doesn't violate FAR's? And, since pay is directly related to union bargaining, some don't want to pay the 2% up front, how about we just take that out of the equation.
You are free to not be a member, not be covered by the contract, then paid 50% less than the union members? Fair? I think so.
How about if you opt not to be a union member, you are no longer covered by the contract? Meaning you have to do whatever the crew desk tells you to do as long as it doesn't violate FAR's? And, since pay is directly related to union bargaining, some don't want to pay the 2% up front, how about we just take that out of the equation.
You are free to not be a member, not be covered by the contract, then paid 50% less than the union members? Fair? I think so.
07-01-2018, 10:07 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Position: On the hotel shuttle
Posts: 5,812
Originally Posted by Dave Fitzgerald
Well.....union membership is optional. But the contract is a benefit. That's what agency shop is all about.
How about if you opt not to be a union member, you are no longer covered by the contract? Meaning you have to do whatever the crew desk tells you to do as long as it doesn't violate FAR's? And, since pay is directly related to union bargaining, some don't want to pay the 2% up front, how about we just take that out of the equation.
You are free to not be a member, not be covered by the contract, then paid 50% less than the union members? Fair? I think so.
How about if you opt not to be a union member, you are no longer covered by the contract? Meaning you have to do whatever the crew desk tells you to do as long as it doesn't violate FAR's? And, since pay is directly related to union bargaining, some don't want to pay the 2% up front, how about we just take that out of the equation.
You are free to not be a member, not be covered by the contract, then paid 50% less than the union members? Fair? I think so.
In 15 years after the last union pilot retires, the Republican/Chamber of Commerce wet dream will have come true. An airline of non-union rugged-individualists like Slaphappy begging for scraps — all in the name of “freedom.”
07-01-2018, 11:22 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 234
Originally Posted by GogglesPisano
The problem is, guess who the airline will hire exclusively going forward: Union or nonunion?
In 15 years after the last union pilot retires, the Republican/Chamber of Commerce wet dream will have come true. An airline of non-union rugged-individualists like Slaphappy begging for scraps — all in the name of “freedom.”
In 15 years after the last union pilot retires, the Republican/Chamber of Commerce wet dream will have come true. An airline of non-union rugged-individualists like Slaphappy begging for scraps — all in the name of “freedom.”
Also I would expect management to pay the non-union members the same or maybe even a bit more initially to drive the wedge in even further and fuel the theory that the union is unecessry and potentially holding people back from reaping the benefits of “free market forces.” Then once the union is off property they’ll pull the rug out. Work rules and generous benefits packages will be out the window and pay will fluctuate wildly depending on “market forces” and how much company kool aide you are willing to injest. Another casualty of this little experiment in libertarianism would most likely be safety as the most lucrative contracts and career advancement would go to the guys that “get the job done.” Oh you’re too tired to agree to an FDP extension? You’re not captain material.
Last edited by BKbigfish; 07-01-2018 at 11:46 AM.
07-08-2018, 04:41 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 105
Line Pilots Pull Weight, not the union.
Originally Posted by guppie
Membership is always optional. You don't have to join the union. You just have to pay your fair share (association fee) of it's cost. After all, Duty of Fair Representation is the law. It states that if your job is covered by a CBA, you will receive the same hard fought pay and bennies as members...even as a nonmember. 'Right to Work' just allows you to be a nonmember AND a freeloader. 'Bankrupt the Unions' is what the legislation should be called. Once the union is gone, we can all fly heavies for Skywest, dba UA,DL, and AA. It'll be swell.
Right to Work does not make you a freeloader. It gives the worker the right NOT to pay homage to a union with which he or she disagrees. Compulsory union membership or compulsory dues is unconstitutional. That is what I was referring to when I said, "make union membership optional." This has been well established. Workers aren't freeloaders. The money they pay to unions is not their leverage. The work they do on the shop floor (cockpits for us airline types) is their leverage. Without this work, union bosses would have zilch. BTW, what percentage of your dues goes to the national union? Want a union that REALLY works for pilots? Elect a union that ONLY represents your work group. Make it so that 100% of your dues goes to your pilots and your contract negotiations, etc.
07-08-2018, 04:44 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 105
Originally Posted by BKbigfish
This^^^
Also I would expect management to pay the non-union members the same or maybe even a bit more initially to drive the wedge in even further and fuel the theory that the union is unecessry and potentially holding people back from reaping the benefits of “free market forces.” Then once the union is off property they’ll pull the rug out. Work rules and generous benefits packages will be out the window and pay will fluctuate wildly depending on “market forces” and how much company kool aide you are willing to injest. Another casualty of this little experiment in libertarianism would most likely be safety as the most lucrative contracts and career advancement would go to the guys that “get the job done.” Oh you’re too tired to agree to an FDP extension? You’re not captain material.
Also I would expect management to pay the non-union members the same or maybe even a bit more initially to drive the wedge in even further and fuel the theory that the union is unecessry and potentially holding people back from reaping the benefits of “free market forces.” Then once the union is off property they’ll pull the rug out. Work rules and generous benefits packages will be out the window and pay will fluctuate wildly depending on “market forces” and how much company kool aide you are willing to injest. Another casualty of this little experiment in libertarianism would most likely be safety as the most lucrative contracts and career advancement would go to the guys that “get the job done.” Oh you’re too tired to agree to an FDP extension? You’re not captain material.
07-08-2018, 05:12 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2011
Posts: 239
Originally Posted by GogglesPisano
The problem is, guess who the airline will hire exclusively going forward: Union or nonunion?
In 15 years after the last union pilot retires, the Republican/Chamber of Commerce wet dream will have come true. An airline of non-union rugged-individualists like Slaphappy begging for scraps — all in the name of “freedom.”
In 15 years after the last union pilot retires, the Republican/Chamber of Commerce wet dream will have come true. An airline of non-union rugged-individualists like Slaphappy begging for scraps — all in the name of “freedom.”
07-08-2018, 05:31 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Position: On the hotel shuttle
Posts: 5,812
Originally Posted by Octaflugaron
Right to Work does not make you a freeloader. It gives the worker the right NOT to pay homage to a union with which he or she disagrees. Compulsory union membership or compulsory dues is unconstitutional. That is what I was referring to when I said, "make union membership optional." This has been well established. Workers aren't freeloaders. The money they pay to unions is not their leverage. The work they do on the shop floor (cockpits for us airline types) is their leverage. Without this work, union bosses would have zilch. BTW, what percentage of your dues goes to the national union? Want a union that REALLY works for pilots? Elect a union that ONLY represents your work group. Make it so that 100% of your dues goes to your pilots and your contract negotiations, etc.
07-08-2018, 08:39 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 105
Originally Posted by GogglesPisano
Riddle me this: why can’t the pilots that are so against the idea of collective bargaining simply find employment at a non-union carrier? Or in corporate aviation? Then everyone is happy, no?
Independent, nonunion professional educator groups have been established in many states. These groups are providing teachers and student teachers with benefits comparable to those of the NEA and AFT, at lower dues. Many do not support any political agenda or ideas which do not directly affect education. They may also provide liability insurance protection for members, which is comparable to that offered by the NEA and AFT. The same arrangement could very easily work in the airline pilot profession.
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