ERJFO

Don't forget MCD pay, how long has that been going on?

Nevets

Unfortunately for us, the process can be rather long. We can also cite the MCD issue. That is back in the arbitrators hands again. As for the other two group greivances, I certainly hope and am confident there will be a resolution to those. In those instances, there are various reasons why its taken so long but I wouldn't say that it has to do with not getting along. Like I said, there are always disagreements.

As for being tested, that was not my point. My point is that we have not seen unilateral changes made or outright disrespect for the contract. Again, there are always disagreements but there is no comparison on the amount of grievances that we have outstanding compared to other ALPA carriers of comparable size or even smaller. In any case, three or four unresolved greivances is not being walked on, in my opinion.

dojetdriver

Keep drinking that kool aid.

Not yet anyway. But the way it's going, it would be naive to not expect it.

We also used to be the best "regional" out there. Not only in terms of contract/pay, but upgrade time also. Things change. In case you haven't been paying attention, hasn't been for the better lately. You can blame the economy, fuel, whatever.

Like I said, not yet. But the company isn't exactly going down a road that reflects they are respecting our contract. If branded/delcon was still going, I'm pretty sure we could say we'd be going on a 18/17 month contract violation. With no resolution in sight.

You can call it what you want, I call that being walked on.

Nevets

No kool aid, just telling you the truth. That is that there is always disagreements. If there was never a disagreement between the union and management, then that would be drinking kool aid.

And again, I'm not talking about being tested. I'm talking about how you can have a professional relationship between management and union regardless of how difficult the circumstances may be.

And as far as not being the best anymore, let me make it more clear, I'm talking about the relationship a union can have with management regardless of whether we are the best or not. Just ask the contract enforcement chair how many grievances are filed at XJT compared to Mesa, TSA, Eagle, or Comair. Their managements' have chosen the path of fighting, scratching and dragging rather than to work with ALPA in resolving the issues quickly when they can.

As for the Branded/DelCon grievance on CCS, I know you wont believe it but the fix was in, sort of speak. It was resolved but unfortunately the implementation didn't happen before it was all shut down. And the reason why ALPA didn't make a big stink about it is because ALPA understood the reasoning behind the delay and the constraints the company was in at the time to make it happen. Its not like they had the ability but just didn't give it to us. This is exactly what I mean by having disagreements but being professional about it and working within the system that is set up to resolve them. The remedy was going to be implemented and the only thing left was making the pilots whole, which the company was not trying to get out of by the way.

Here is my point of this thread, “Our desire to seek formal recognition underscores our need to have a relationship based not only on the benevolence of a leadership team that could transition at any time, but on a relationship where there exists a means to resolve our private discourses under the support of legal process.”

dojetdriver

You call them disagreements, I call them contract violations. Poh-tay-toh pah-ta-toh I guess

Let me make it more clear. We're not sure yet if our company is starting to go down the road of those other carriers yet, are we? Recent events dictate so.

Is that when we were going to get in March? Oh wait, maybe September? It SHOULDN'T have EVEN been an issue. There shouldn't have been anything to UNDERSTAND. The company violated the contract for a loooong time.

They should have just gone with another system. Ask you friends that use flica, at least the ones at good companies. It can do EVERYTHING CCS can do. Christ, even MESA had online trip trading.

I see what you're saying. Just ignore the problem long enough and it eventually goes away. OR, just ignore it long enough and a bigger fish to fry will come along eventually

Lets hope the JB guys are able to organize and get a solid, legally biding document in place to ensure protection for them in the future.

Nevets

Yes, that is part of what I meant when I say disagreements.

I know what you are saying. What I'm saying is despite what road our company is taking, we are not being walked on. Recent events do not point to greivances pilling up and not being adjudicated like other airlines I mentioned. Nobody can tell the future so obviously I can't speak to what may or may not happen.

This is what I mean about being professional about it. Sure, ALPA could have made a big fuss about it and even done informational picketing. Sometimes you have to choose your battles. There were legitimate reasons why they couldn't get CCS or anything else up and running. That doesn't mean they can get away with it and that is why the greivance was filed. It just means that the company has to come up with a remedy and then make the pilots whole. ALPA never backed away from either of those two conditions. You don't always go 'nucular' and that is what the point of this thread.

Who said anything about ignorign anything. As a matter of fact, I even said that I'm confident that those two greivances will be dealt with and the pilots made whole.

Well, that is the whole point. And again, the point of this thread is that unions and management can work together without going 'nucular' when the first major disagreement/contract violation comes up. Its just a matter of having a process where grievances can be resolved privately.

Look, I get it. You are ****ed because you have taken paycuts, downgrades, base closures, bankruptcies, furloughs, etc. I don't know what else to tell you other than have a happy thanksgiving. PM me if you want to talk in more detail. Take care.

cgtpilot

The difference between JB and my previous carrier (who "flies on AA's behalf") is like comparing the Sun vs. the Moon. That being said, the JBPA is a positive change necessary to ensure all of us have a job commensurate with the company we fly for for the rest of our careers. Hopefully in the same light as the SWAPA has served WN pilots and the company for its many successful years within this wreched industry.

dojetdriver

Sorry, but I can't come anywhere near understanding your case here. I don't consider knowingly violating the contract just a "disagreement".

It's all relative. But when dealing with airline management, you can hope for the best but you better plan for the worst. Although I admire your optimism, I think you are underestimating what can happen. Maybe you've been through it before, but I'm guessing not.

I didn't say the MEC was ignoring anything, the company was. As far as the last two grievances go, lets hope the affected guys get resolution soon. As far as the no CCS goes, what can we expect from that? Seriously, what is the company going to do when they lose that one? If there is some kind of payback, are many of the furloughed pilots going to be entitled to that?

I don't think there's really anything you can tell me that any other rep I've already talked to can.

Noseeums

There's nothing to "get" here. Either you work for a labor-cooperative employer or you do not.

nwa757

Exactly. The moral of the story is that JetBlue management should choose to take the road that ExpressJet management as taken with their pilots- work with instead of against.

As far as people complaining about the XJT paycut, that really doesn't have to do with XJT management walking on the pilots, its more about CAL management walking all over XJT while XJT is forced into a financial corner, while CHQ/Colgan walk on by, doing it for less. The question is, do the other Express/Connection pilots notice they are producing more revenue and cheap seats for CAL while not getting their share? Based on what I am hearing from Colgan crews and their ALPA vote, that is about to change. Good to see.