SWA Captain

w-2 2010 $317,000 Total days at work 142 All training and DH included
Not check airman, just working the system.

Yes average captain makes 230,000 Reserve pays 215,000 for a captain picking up nada(nothing)

One other correction, when SWAPA started it started with no funds from the company, all the pilots were volunteers and not paid a dime for their time. The president donated the his house for meetings and stationary.

 

I agree with your points about the DAL pilots needing a big pay raise. FWIW, a quick google search of these keywords "Southwest Pilots contract 2001" returned this old headline. It doesn't precisely answer your question but I think it does show SWAPA was using ALPA negotiated rates as justification for their pay demands:

July 04, 2002|By NEW YORK TIMES NEWS SERVICE
Disagreement over pay remains unresolved. The union, the Southwest Airlines Pilots' Association, argued that pilots at Delta Air Lines, for example, earned about $244 an hour flying Boeing 737 jets, which make up Southwest's entire fleet. A Southwest pilot, the union said, earns about $140 an hour.

Pay parity was the key platform plank for the current group of union leaders, who were elected in 2000 on a pledge to win significant raises. With elections again scheduled in September, the pilots' union sought to resume contract talks this spring, but in a much different competitive atmosphere.

Though Southwest was profitable in 2001 and is likely to remain so, Cordle estimates that Southwest's revenue will decline 12 percent this year. Over the past 20 years, the airline's revenue has increased an average 14 percent annually.

In his latest offer to the union, Parker proposed an extension of the current contract by two years, through 2006, and raises totaling 35 percent over the next four years. But that deal did not bring the union close to the levels at other airlines. After a 27-hour meeting last month, the union's board deadlocked on recommending the offer to the pilots.

"As a matter of principle, I think we can do better," said Jonathan Weaks, president of Southwest's pilots union. The union leaders said they nonetheless sent the offer to the members for a vote because they thought that the pilots should have a chance to express their opinions directly. Weaks said he favored a complete overhaul of the contract.

Analysts say Parker can afford to pay Southwest's pilots the same rates as at other airlines, given the carrier's financial strength and labor productivity. Southwest pilots, for example, fly an average of 80 to 90 hours a month, compared with about 50 hours a month at other major airlines.

Southwest also can turn planes around more quickly than its competitors, and its maintenance costs are lower because it focuses on just one type of aircraft. Its low fares attract budget-conscious fliers.

Southwest wants to do everything it can to protect that advantage, said Cordle. Union officials, he maintained, are accustomed to the company's history of friendly relationships and to the idea that employees' compensation is tied to the company's financial success and will not press Southwest for the last penny.

Southwest pilots' vote on contract begins - Page 2 - Baltimore Sun

 

Your arguments are beyond weak.


JJ

 

There's no shortage of guys at B6 trying to pick up extra flying to make up for the shortfall in their compensation. They are like lab rats hitting the feeder bar for food pellets unaware that they've been had.


JJ

 

Just well known examples.

Actually, if you want a better example of ALPA's hideous faliure across the board, one only need to look at the RJ which single-handedly destroyed the profession. From its inception where it should have been controlled to its expansion where it should have been included, they not ony botched that from stem to stern, but aggrivate that faliure consistantly even now.

Those clowns could f&%# up a cup of coffee.

 

.....and another impressionable young lad bellies up to the good humor truck with dreams and fantasies. They'll do nothing more for you then a good in-house union will, except strip you of more money to support their bloated lifestyles.

Working for an airline and having ALPA on the property is like living on a block with two bullies. One jacks you up everyday and the other promises to be there to protect you for a portion of your lunch money, but rarely seem to be around when you need them most and in time you'll learn this.

It's just a suggestion, but I think a toasted almond or bomb pop isn't the best choice for you. Ask the guy in the musical truck for a dreamsicle...........I think you'll find it more to your liking.

 

ALPA botched that just as badly as they have everything else. For the record, ALPA got about 130 Eagle pilots AA jobs during the first 14 years of that agreement, while the APA got about 400 or so at Eagle. The Eagle pilots started at the bottom of the total list, while the AA furloughees started at the bottom of the captains list. ALPA got a "D-" for their flowthru negotiating abilities. The only thing worse, was their policing of the agreement, where they get an "F". No sour grapes, because that was the agreement........actually, my hats off to the APA for a job well done on that one.

A 16-year contract that the fat guy from national (food stained tie and all) held over his head and proclaimed the best thing since sliced bread and a series of amendment rounds that slowly gave back many of the palatable parts of the CBA was what ALPA "managed to do for me"..........oh, that and a $32,000 magazine subscription and an occasional reminder to pay or face termination when they botched my dues payment.

Believe what you wish. If another group of suckers falls down the same hole as so many of us have who have the bumps and bruises to prove it want to experience it for themselves, I say go for it. You'll never be allowed to strike though as ALPA can't give you that (just like all the other ALPA carriers who've been in negotiations for years and wont be released to self-help). The actual ability to strike is the only thing that gets true results and ALPA has no juice anymore and is simply now a dues collection business attempting to support itself as its primary priority.

The difficult part is making it LOOK like they're actually doing something for you. Thankfully, I'm done with that forever, but I can still watch with amusement from the sidelines as the frustration of others who actually WANT to experience this for themselves when they don't get what they thought they would.

 

.....Spirit?.....

 

Honestly slow, I wasnt avoiding your question, I just didnt take it as a real question.

Wage rates combined with work rule determine contract value. Seniority on equipment determines the individuals ability to exercise the work rules to maximize his income or quality of life choice.

Mean w-2 is a useful comparison metric. It takes into account broad behavior patterns based upon work rules.

I dont know what you mean by B scale or not. If you mean was express a b scale, I would say it was a c scale with different work rules that was bid in seniority order. This answer isnt meant to avert your question, but it is my viewpoint that every system seeks equilibrium.

If we had C-172s that paid $400/hour and 747-400s that paid $100/hour, I think the cessna would generally go senior to the 747.

 

IOW Sailing doesnt know what he is talking about.