Your reply clearly points out why ALPA is not a union. A true union reaches out to the least in a class and craft, reaches out and picks them up. They negotiate for better wages and working conditions to bring them up to an industry standard.

Why? Because by doing so, they remove the ability of YOUR management to make the case that "they" are the real industry standard and YOU make too much. Ask any negotiating committee when the last time was their company said they didn't make enough money and were below "industry standard." We'll wait....

Perhaps you feel it's OK to sign concessionary contracts. Apparently the IBT Airline Division doesn't. Perhaps you feel it's OK to walk across your fellow employees picket line at your company because after all, they aren't pilots. Apparently they don't. Maybe you agree that to appease your friends, it's OK to drop the experience requirements in the cockpit. Apparently they don't.

And apparently you join in the belief that it's OK to look in disdain on fellow pilots because they don't make as much as you. Or that they must not be "real" pilots because they fly cargo and you fly people.

Call yourself a "union" member all you want. That's not what UNION people do.

 

UAL mechanics just got a $180 million dollar increase in their agreement. They got back jobs and benefits that AMFA sold down the river.

And what they got was a bridge agreement that lifted them up and put them on a higher level that led right into the new negotiations for a merged agreement with the CAL mechanics who make more. So, instead of negotiating off a lower rate, inferior AMFA negotiated deal, they got raises and benefit increases and now are going in at a higher level in the new discussions.

Yeah, if I was a mechanic, I'd want AMFA. An office in Colorado, with a part time lobbyist in Washington who works by the hour and represents the US Chamber of Commerce...the very group that pours millions into defeating labor and American workers. No economic analysis staff, no support, but they'll take your money, thank you.

They're so good that they got voted out at Horizon and just tried to get back on the property. They lost. Even their own supporters didn't vote for them.

 

DALPA openly admits Delta pilot wages are not industry leading. But take a look around, they are near the top. There, you didn't wait long. And it's clear IBT would rather drag things out and be stuck on the same crummy wages for years and years. I prefer consistent increases and improvements over contract stagnation. That being said, all airline unions are handcuffed by the Railway Labor Act. It doesn't matter if it's IBT, ALPA, or CAPA.

And I never expressed disdain for any of my fellow pilots because they make less money or fly cargo. Show me a post of mine where I said those things. ALPA represents FedEx pilots. Are their wages below industry standard? Who signed their leading contract first? FedEx or UPS. Yup, FedEx and ALPA put that rung in the ladder. You're welcome IBT. And show me an airline that has all their employee groups represented by the same union. I'm sure mechanics have never gone to work while IBT pilots struck. Oh, and GoJet pilots are IBT. While TranStates pilots tried fighting for better wages, IBT stabbed them in the back by representing GoJet pilots who flew the larger airplanes for well below industry standard wages. So much for not settling. And how much participation did IBT have in lobbying to raise the minimums for commercial pilots, or change the FTDT regs? I bet IBT spent less money and time then ALPA.

IBT hasn't convinced me they're a good Pilot union. ALPA's positive actions far outweigh those of IBT.

 

IBT "stabbed" Trans States in the back? You spend too much time listening to York. Ask them to tell you about Prater's visit to management when he begged them to kill off the GoJets pilots and give Trans States the flying. I seem to recall a few UAL furloughees flew there as well...interesting how ALPA folks freely tossed the "scab" word around at an airline that had their own contract and work rules. In essence, what you are saying that unless ANY new airline starts at anything below industry wages, they are back stabbers. Hmmm...when was the last time your group stood up and said "pay our FFD's industry leading rates or we'll shut down?"

While the rest of the airline unions were standing up to keep the minimum experience requirements high, ALPA was siding with ATA, aviation universities and the industry in favor of lowering them. FAA stood back because they figured that even if CAPA, IBT and others came out for the higher numbers, if ALPA came out with the lower recommendations, they'd have the cover of saying, "well, ALPA says it's OK, so...." IBT, CAPA, APA, IPA, UPS, SWAPA and others spent lots more time and effort on the issue.

Now, assuming you are correct and ALPA did all the heavy lifting on FTDT...and I disagree...explain for us all how the long standing mantra "One Level of Safety" became..."Well, for everyone but Cargo and the guys who fly our troops...because they aren't real pilots and don't need the same rest." Everyone else fought...where was ALPA's outrage? Not until FedEx raised cain and talked decert, did ALPA move. And then it was with a joke of a meeting in New Orleans. Moak never intended it to be anything but something to wave at them to say, "Look! We had a MEETING."

ALPA became the joke and the point of anger for every friend that pilots have on the Hill on this one. They were seen as an absolute joke compared to what it was in the past. Prater was seen from Day 1 as a buffoon in a suit who liked to glad hand and give neckrubs to the NTSB Administrator (nice)...while he was looking for his next job as a lobbyist in DC. Lee, sadly isn't seen much better.

Those aren't my opinions. Those are the opinions of staffers, Congressmen, Senators and lobbyists. They invite ALPA as window dressing, but consider it a paper tiger.

Maybe you should be asking your leadership this. Why has ALPA given each of the top four carriers an individual office on the 8th floor at Mass. Avenue and full FPL so they can go lobby the Hill? Is it because they can't do the job...or because they are so scared that a decert by any of them would collapse the house?

No one wants to see ALPA fail, me especially. There are too many good people there who really care about pilots. But unless ALPA pulls their head out of the sand and deals with the real, systemic flaws that they keep glossing over...they can't survive as a viable voice.

As far as them not showing you anything...I'd challenge you to pick up the phone and call their Division Director and talk directly to him. Don't worry...he talks "pilot"...as they say, "he are one." I'd bet you a paycheck he'll take your call and talk to you at length. You could talk to his Assistant Director...who was a senior Contract Administrator who was one of the six illegally fired by ALPA and won their jobs back (yeah, that one cost ALPA $$ too when they were found guilty and they had to post the award on the doors). Or their senior negotiator...a guy named Dubinsky.

Make the call…but don’t worry about the bet. I don’t want you losing the paycheck.

 

A TOTAL LIE. There was no decert talk at all. None. Period.

Ever heard of this: Bill Text - 112th Congress (2011-2012) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

Is IBT supporting this? ALPA is. It's a little more than just a "feel good" meeting.

I know IBT supports this:

Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)
Reauthorization/Express Carrier: Workers at
different companies who perform the same
tasks in the same industry – such as express
delivery drivers – should be treated equally
under the law. Unfortunately, they aren’t.
In the 111th Congress, the House passed
the FAA Reauthorization bill three different
times, with the Express Carrier provision – a
provision requiring employees of express
delivery companies to be covered by the
Railway Labor Act, only if they perform airline-
specific functions; other jobs at express
carriers, like truck drivers and sorters, would
be covered by the National Labor Relations
Act. Failure by Congress to finalize the FAA
bill required another extension to be
passed. The Teamsters Union will continue
to support inclusion of the Express Carrier
provision in the FAA Reauthorization legislation
in the 112th Congress.

A bill that would have had a very negative effect on FedEx. Thanks Teamsters! Thank God it didn't pass.

Again, Are you a pilot? Who do you fly for? What is your officlal relationship with the IBT?

Myself: An MD-11 Line Capt. at FDX. I do not now and never have had any elected or leadership positions at ALPA or any other union. I support ALPA as I supported the FPA. I think ALPA is a better deal than an independant union. I see no advantage in being a Teamster.

I very much doubt that you are a FedEx pilot. This is only my opinion but I think that the vast majority of FedEx pilots are very much at odds with the IBT's political agenda. An agenda that far exceeds anything related to the careers of airline pilots. Input from FedEx pilots is one of the main reasons that ALPA did not endorse Obama for President.

ALPA has a lot of problems but is better than anything out there IMO.

Regards,
Clutch

 

Are you saying only FedEx pilots are allowed to voice an opinion on cargo here? And what specifically do you know of the IBT Airline Divisions "agenda" for airline pilots beyond what you read in the funnies? Sounds to me like you have no information about it, but have an opinion. Scary.

"Total lie." Wouldn't know that from talking to ALPA staff. But hey, what do they know?

"Official relationship?" Nope...I just spend a lot of time with a lot of interesting people in both unions and on the Hill. Lots of relationships, lots of information. Pilot? Yup...I prefer 4 big engines myself.

Maybe you ought to take up the suggestion to make the call to. You might be amazed what you find out when you listen and even more amazed when you ask any question you want and get an answer.

 

I've been reading their website.

Regards,
Clutch

 

Again, I understand your need to focus on the bottom. Keeps people from focusing on the fact that ALPA isn't at the top anywhere.Again, I know facts are painful for you since ALPA is your passion. SWAPA is at the top of the heap in the pax world, and IPA is at the top of the cargo world. Moreover, because of IPA's seat pay, there is a greater percentage of folks at the top pay scale than at ALPA's FDX. No knock of FDX, you're a great company. Just pointing out that ALPA is at the top of nothing...despite johnso29's attempts.Again, you look foolish by trying to deflect what is undeniable fact. SWAPA is at the top of the pax heap...not any ALPA carrier. But what is even more foolish, is the fact that you purposely neglect to mention that it was ALPA carriers that gave our industry the largest collapses in pay and work rules.Ignoring facts and shilling for a failing union leadership isn't either johnso29. This is a nice segue into getting back to the topic of this thread. Specifically, ALPA losing in its last ditch effort. But more importantly, ALPA's behavior that triggered this jury's judgment.

Carl

 

He is a former MEC officer from Atlas.

 

Really? Tell us what's so offensive and bad for airline pilots on www.teamsterair.org

Is it the non concessionary contracts they have negotiated for pilots? The organizing drives? The support for pilots whose airlines are in bankruptcy? The fight to stop offshore MRO's that use non FAA licensed or security screened people to fix the planes that we fly? Is it the drive to make everyone understand that we're all in this together?

Please...tell us which of those things is bad for and does not represent the best interests of airline pilots. No one is asking you to join them, just to explain why those things are so bad.