Don't think your getting my point. The 767 always paid out as a widebody at CAL while DAL & UAL paid them the same as the 757. Mind you this was well before we merged so it seems you guys dropped the first turd in the proverbial banded punchbowl.

Now if you're referring to banding vs individual aircraft pay, I'd agree with you that the CAL MC, for whatever reason, thought it would be a good idea to stick to that for ISL reasons. I've never agreed with it but here we are.

Again, you guys brought the ridiculous 757 /767 similar pay rates to the party, not us.

Agree completely with you on that Mako. CAL's MEC did demand pay banding and pretty much did what you said to get it. We did not however, EVER group the 757 and the 767 in the same band prior to the merger.

Guess we’ll agree to disagree then. I think it’s beyond stupid that my single type rating of 757/767 paid different rates when we got the ISL. For the 15 yrs I was on the fleet pre ISL, I had no problem with it paying the same rate. Just like I think it’s idiotic that now my 737 type rating pays different rates. Ditto Bus. It shouldn’t take and accountant with an excel spreadsheet to figure out my payrec. Before I simply multiplied my single rate X my hours and done.

Yupe.. here we go again.
LUAL will always believe one thing,
LCAL will always believe another.

Only facts are that pre merger, on the LCAL side.. the 76-2's were banded with the 76-4's and 777.
On the LUAL side, the 757 and 767 were banded together, while the 777 and 747 were together.

At a road show, Jay Hep stated that the 76-3's were going away and so they didn't want to waste negotiating capital on an aircraft leaving (funny, huh..)
[EWR Road Show, can't remember if it was the Sat or Sun one, I went to both]

Fast forward, the contract passes and the planes are NOT leaving, they are getting mod'd (Winglets, BF seats, etc)
Then we start hearing that we will fix the pay next time-

Next time comes.. extension.. big bucks for everyone and oh by the way, no fix for the fact that the 76-3 pays the same as a 75-3, which is a few bucks more than the 75-2/big 737's!
Extension passes overwhelmingly~

Fast forward again, now we are putting new Polaris Seating in the planes that were leaving!
Rumor Alert!-
Boeing talking to undisclosed carrier about restarting 76-3 Passenger jets!

At the end of the day, we need to think about which direction we want to head.
IF we are going to draw a line in the sand and say "Unband all these aircraft!", then we better be ready for a LONG long fight.
If we instead decide to make the 76-3 a Widebody Pay aircraft, then it will need the biggest pay jump in dollar amount AND percentage amount.
And lastly there is the idea of it paying closer to widebody pay, but not the exact amount.

Keep in mind-
Jan 2019 12th yr pay

Wide Body
Capt $351.87 FO $240.34

76-3
Capt $293.46 FO $200.43

75/2 & Big 73's
Capt $283.22 FO $193.44

So what will we (you and I?!) want?
Do we raise everything by, say.. 15%
Or do we raise the top by 10%, the middle by 20% and the bottom by 15%

Also keep in mind that we have 37 aircraft in this group, but what about any future orders?

It is an interesting conversation to have. Every contract/extension has targeted one group for major/massive fixes and increases, while other fleets have seen modest gains (unless we look at the 75-2 which took it in the shorts again during C'12 with regards to 4B and that extra $50 mil for the groups signing bonus!).
Hopefully the 76-3 pay disparity is resolved this time around~

Motch

PS) Numbers based on the above percentages!

$387.06 vs $352.15 vs. $325.70.

PPS) Also keep in mind that with the new Republican Tax Plan, all this extra money will be a wash! So modest gains of 20/15/10% vs. QoL improvements comes into play BIG (huge) Time!

PPPS) Not 'negotiating' in public. Just having a discussion. Negotiating means giving and taking. Merely presenting some facts for the discussion.
Have NEVER stated what and where I'd be willing to give to get.
And
Every pilots give and take is different. For the .05% of United pilots who actually post on here!

Just my opinion

Everyone complaining how low our 767-300 rates our, could you please
look at AA’s and DAL’s rate for said aircraft, you will see we are competitive in those Aircraft.
AA 767-300. CA. FO
276. 189
Dal 767-300. 277. 189

Ual 767-300. 274. 187

We will never see wide body pay until everyone else ponies up also.

I’m not negotiating in public and stating what I’d be willing to accept etc. How big a percentage an increase we achieve is subject to negotiations as is whether we unband and or fix 767-300. Enough said.

Now on the other items you stated above that need fixing, I agree! One specific item I’m not sure many are aware. Per the APA contract comparasion we received from the MEC, Delta’s LTD 50 percent of regular earnings with NO CAP and a 32 percent B plan contribution. We are way off on this one. Also absolutely no Scope gives!

+1!

And like DAL
Pensionable PS
270 hr per yr of SL (which works out perfectly to take you to the above mentioned LTD so no need to ever worry about a SL bank)

The ALPA UAL MEC Pay Comparison is a MUST read for every pilot.. not just United Pilots.

That being said, if the goal of the company is to have a new 'Contract' by Dec '18.. they better get on with it big time!
With a vote taking place in Mid Nov'18, MEC meetings, back and forth with the pilot group all of Sept/Oct/Nov.. gonna be a crazy busy Spring and Summer.

Always, isn't there a MEC election in the Spring?

As the above posters have pointed out, there are many areas that need fixing.. some slightly, others major.

Would be great if pilots didn't go straight to Section 3.. but that's just not reality.

Either way, gonna be a fun 2018! Both on the line and here on the forums~
LOL

Motch

Of course you're right, Motch. But I'll wager an Andy Jackson that says most won't find the time read it and wouldn't even know where to find it if they changed their minds. And then there's the anti-union crowd that doesn't even know how to sign in.

The honchos in Willis know this and are already working to exploit it.

As a group, we are so short sighted that I often find myself in a stupor. A whole bunch of guys think that their W2 is just a gift from Willis because they are so studly and awesome. As if, we're irreplaceable and...never mind.

LOL
As usual, on the mark.
Flown with numerous pilots that didn't read it, forgot where they downloaded it to, or just weren't that interested.

Funny (and sad) as it's easy to download onto your own Ipad, or the company Ipad.

Oh well..
Most of them will be the ones who go right to section 3 with any new deal. And both the company and the union knows that!

Always
Motch
(Fly Safe, Fly Professionally & Fly The Contract)

PS) Blows my mind that both the MEC and the LEC can't/won't keep reposting DYK's and this CC every few blastmails.
Monthly we have had new hires and returning pilots who are new to all this stuff, or guys coming back off LTD/medical, etc..
And yes, there is a link to the MEC Library that takes you to the DYK section. But not the same as putting a PDF file that can be downloaded and stored into your device. Just my .02