For Real?
07-14-2018 | 09:31 PM
#71
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 481
Likes: 0
From: Airbus 320 Captain
At DL you are explicitly forbidden from listing for more than one flight in a market. Not only that but there is a commuter policy and there is no help for being "proactive" that way (in fact you're also not allowed to list for flights you don't intend to take). Your scenario is nonexistent in a time of check in priority. It just means you don't get to show up last minute and bump the other commuter. The chaotic list seems to be the current UAL one where there isn't even a cutoff time.
While I applaud the attempts to equate this to abrogating seniority, it's not. There are many aspects of this career where seniority does not make a final determination. Pay for example is longevity, not seniority. While equipment choice can affect pay, a senior pilot doesn't make more than a junior pilot is holding more senior equipment at a worse schedule. I'm not aware of any airlines where senior deadhead crewmembers get a ticket to pick confirmed seats first. It is industry standard that the jumpseat belongs to the Captain, not the senior pilot and it is also standard (although through different methods) that seniority doesn't privilege you on the list if you show up 5 minutes prior to departure... unless you're at United.
All of these responses seem to be trying to reword "I like screwing over pilots who haven't been her as long as me" into "if you don't let me do it you're abrogating seniority." I guess having a close out time for nonrevs must be abrogating seniority too. Same thing for various pass priorities.
If this is the method that the UAL group wants to keep, that's on you. But the responses seem disingenuous at best in my view.
While I applaud the attempts to equate this to abrogating seniority, it's not. There are many aspects of this career where seniority does not make a final determination. Pay for example is longevity, not seniority. While equipment choice can affect pay, a senior pilot doesn't make more than a junior pilot is holding more senior equipment at a worse schedule. I'm not aware of any airlines where senior deadhead crewmembers get a ticket to pick confirmed seats first. It is industry standard that the jumpseat belongs to the Captain, not the senior pilot and it is also standard (although through different methods) that seniority doesn't privilege you on the list if you show up 5 minutes prior to departure... unless you're at United.
All of these responses seem to be trying to reword "I like screwing over pilots who haven't been her as long as me" into "if you don't let me do it you're abrogating seniority." I guess having a close out time for nonrevs must be abrogating seniority too. Same thing for various pass priorities.
If this is the method that the UAL group wants to keep, that's on you. But the responses seem disingenuous at best in my view.
07-14-2018 | 09:48 PM
#72
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 289
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From: 73na
The one who reserved it 6 days prior. If no one reserved it, the one who shows up at the gate first. We can reserve JS 6 days prior going to work, 4 days prior coming home, and 2 days prior for personal travel.
07-14-2018 | 09:53 PM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 491
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So now that I’m finally senior and have a shot at getting the jumpseat we are going to change it to whoever signed up first? No thank you.
07-15-2018 | 04:46 AM
#74
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,159
Likes: 1
With seniority comes more responsibility, IMHO. Some of those responsibilities should include watching out for people with little or no seniority. If you are a senior guy who shows up, REGULARLY WITHOUT LISTING, and takes the jumpseat at the last minute- you are an epic failure.
Last minute things happen in folks lives. I politely explained to a fella who was depending on a jump seat that I had to get to MSY to deal with a family emergency and there were no seats in the back. It was handled politely and the junior pilot who wanted the JS was more than OK with helping me get home.
I get it. This is more directed at the regular folks who commute and rely on the JS to get to and from work. Just more persistence in education and Captain to Captain peer pressure politely applied.
Keep seniority where it needs to be. I don't like the concept of listing for a JS 6 days in advance and that "guarantees" me a JS. You can abrogate seniority that way just by being extremely proactive. What if I put my PBS bid in first, would that guarantee me the line I wanted each month? What about vacation?
07-15-2018 | 10:33 AM
#75
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 285
Likes: 10
From: Clear Right
I certainly don't advocate giving up any contractual benefit. In this case (Guam stipend). But i also don't support future "carve outs" SFO, (which i am currently based) NYC etc. etc.
Instead make the (well deserved) compensation package i.e pay rates stellar for all pilots on our seniority list. The seniority system isn't perfect, but its here to stay. We all know the risks and pitfalls as well as the rewards and advantages involved in this career.
Instead make the (well deserved) compensation package i.e pay rates stellar for all pilots on our seniority list. The seniority system isn't perfect, but its here to stay. We all know the risks and pitfalls as well as the rewards and advantages involved in this career.
07-15-2018 | 10:37 AM
#76
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,559
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From: A Nobody
Last minute things happen in folks lives. I politely explained to a fella who was depending on a jump seat that I had to get to MSY to deal with a family emergency and there were no seats in the back. It was handled politely and the junior pilot who wanted the JS was more than OK with helping me get home.
These days it is at best a 50% chance of getting a seat in back on standby.
07-15-2018 | 10:50 AM
#77
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 481
Likes: 0
From: Airbus 320 Captain
And that'd work as well as the time stamp did for trip pickups.. at exactly 28 hours prior, 10 reserves would all frantically try to pick up the trip. Whoever had the fastest internet connection would win. Then, some guys paid 10 bucks a month for a computer program (the beginnings of crew companion) that would start hitting the pickup button 10 times a second to out snipe the other reserves. As a reserve, I couldn't pick up a trip because my lousy internet wasn't as fast as some other reserve with a fiber optic connection using a 3rd party program to hit the enter key 10 times per second. Hardly equitable. Seniority is a fair and impartial way.. everyone gains it over time. Long ago, as a new hire, I didn't whine about the number of commuters to Anchorage. I sucked it up and commuted the day prior so that I wouldn't be out of position. If you're Junior and commuting, don't whine about your "needs".. it's not my problem. Take responsibility for your life and quit crying.
07-15-2018 | 10:54 AM
#78
Need More Callouts
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,143
Likes: 0
From: Unbridled Enthusiasm
Ridiculous and again, takes the Captain completely out of the equation as to who rides.
07-15-2018 | 11:51 AM
#79
Banned
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,655
Likes: 0
From: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
Yes, and it doesn't take the Captain out of anything, he ultimately has the last say, but probably should have some justification for punting the proactive pilot in favor of the walked-up entitled one (and I'm generally senior enough to get the seat), but allowing people to reserve the JS allows for much more predictability in everyone's plans.
07-15-2018 | 12:34 PM
#80
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 154
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