Vacancy 20-02V
10-07-2019, 08:59 AM
#181
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B737 CAPT IAH
Posts: 1,130
Originally Posted by horrido27
The bold line is exactly the issue.
IF you are below the G Line, you are not guaranteed a line.
But IF there is enough flying left to make a line, it needs to go via Seniority. If it can't honor seniority, then put it in open time.
As someone who waives on a regular basis (as I live in base and am fine with 1 day off between workblocks), I understand that waiving is an individual choice that is offered by the contract. But just because someone does or doesn't waive, it shouldn't trump (ouch) seniority.
As you mentioned.. its part of our Contract. So let's discuss the merits of our contract with regards to how our PBS system is utilized.
Again, it's not about junior "union" brothers (and sisters) getting a line. It's about honoring seniority.
That 'junior' pilot should understand that there is something wrong with our system when someone senior to him/her didn't get a line while they did.. all because of 'constraint/completion mode'.
Guess you are fine with someone below you getting a line while you get reserve. I am not.
If the system couldn't build me (or you) a line with the remaining trips there are two options-
1) Give us all the trips that DO fit in our schedule and pay us MPG.
B) [This is thinking outside of the box] Give us all the trips that DO fit in our schedule and then put a few Res Days in where needed to 'make' a legal line.
If it doesn't want to do that, then throw all those trips into open time. Helps with Seniority Trip Trading (more trips for trading) and the trips will still be covered as we would actually have a handful more reserve.
Keep in mind, the reserve who didn't get a line now will still be able to do aggressive pickup the day prior..
Of course there will be someone who benefits from having a line built. That person should be the most senior person below the G Line.
Honor Seniority.
I am mid pack in my BES. I have learned how to bid by learning from my past mistakes. That being said, knowing your 'bidding power' is key.
But the problem IS this PBS system and how we are awarded our lines.
When a junior person gets something a senior person requested.. but wasn't awarded because that would have prevented the junior person from getting a line, there is an issue.
This "constraint" isn't just a reserve/lineholder issue.. it affects everyone.
We are coming to 2 years of contract negotiations. Things will most likely start getting worse sometime next year. There are (probably) 9000 pilots who will not see a pay raise next year.
You (probably) will since you mentioned that you've been here 5 years (I believe).. you will see a longevity pay raise in 2020. Along with every other Post Merger New Hire.
Seniority is what the airline industry is all about.
PBS does not (always) honor seniority.
That is an issue to be discussed and fixed.
FS, FP & FtC
Always
Motch
IF you are below the G Line, you are not guaranteed a line.
But IF there is enough flying left to make a line, it needs to go via Seniority. If it can't honor seniority, then put it in open time.
As someone who waives on a regular basis (as I live in base and am fine with 1 day off between workblocks), I understand that waiving is an individual choice that is offered by the contract. But just because someone does or doesn't waive, it shouldn't trump (ouch) seniority.
As you mentioned.. its part of our Contract. So let's discuss the merits of our contract with regards to how our PBS system is utilized.
Again, it's not about junior "union" brothers (and sisters) getting a line. It's about honoring seniority.
That 'junior' pilot should understand that there is something wrong with our system when someone senior to him/her didn't get a line while they did.. all because of 'constraint/completion mode'.
Guess you are fine with someone below you getting a line while you get reserve. I am not.
If the system couldn't build me (or you) a line with the remaining trips there are two options-
1) Give us all the trips that DO fit in our schedule and pay us MPG.
B) [This is thinking outside of the box] Give us all the trips that DO fit in our schedule and then put a few Res Days in where needed to 'make' a legal line.
If it doesn't want to do that, then throw all those trips into open time. Helps with Seniority Trip Trading (more trips for trading) and the trips will still be covered as we would actually have a handful more reserve.
Keep in mind, the reserve who didn't get a line now will still be able to do aggressive pickup the day prior..
Of course there will be someone who benefits from having a line built. That person should be the most senior person below the G Line.
Honor Seniority.
I am mid pack in my BES. I have learned how to bid by learning from my past mistakes. That being said, knowing your 'bidding power' is key.
But the problem IS this PBS system and how we are awarded our lines.
When a junior person gets something a senior person requested.. but wasn't awarded because that would have prevented the junior person from getting a line, there is an issue.
This "constraint" isn't just a reserve/lineholder issue.. it affects everyone.
We are coming to 2 years of contract negotiations. Things will most likely start getting worse sometime next year. There are (probably) 9000 pilots who will not see a pay raise next year.
You (probably) will since you mentioned that you've been here 5 years (I believe).. you will see a longevity pay raise in 2020. Along with every other Post Merger New Hire.
Seniority is what the airline industry is all about.
PBS does not (always) honor seniority.
That is an issue to be discussed and fixed.
FS, FP & FtC
Always
Motch
Company gets to control the parameters every month. LPA, min and max, number of open trips after solution, g line, etc. That along with other pilot variables (Vaca, training, etc) drive splat and below g line awards.
Zero idea here if some of that freedom will be reduced in the next contract. I hope so.
So, we have what we have. You can PDR the SSC PBS gurus on all concerns and get a much more detailed explanation.
Complaining here yields.....zero.
Respectfully
Lee
10-07-2019, 03:13 PM
#182
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 1,825
Originally Posted by Buck Rogers
You may be entirely correct. What does EWR/75/FO have for numbers? 450 in category? Delta has some pretty big categories....ATL757/FO with about 410 and MD88 with 500ish Once the program is written I'm not sure how big the category is really matters.
10-07-2019, 03:17 PM
#183
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: 756 Left Side
Posts: 1,629
Lee..
No complaints here, just pointing out stuff the way I see it.
I've lived with LCAL and Now NUAL (New United) PBS.
It is what it is.
That being said (written! lol).. I will find myself on reserve in the next year or two (hopefully~) and while I'd be able to take advantage of 4 months where I'll have vacation and 1 month where I'll have training, it still won't be right when I get a line yet others above me don't.
Lots of Post Merger New Hires here how don't know how/why we got to where we are with regards to our PBS. Maybe some of these discussion raise awareness~
Motch
No complaints here, just pointing out stuff the way I see it.
I've lived with LCAL and Now NUAL (New United) PBS.
It is what it is.
That being said (written! lol).. I will find myself on reserve in the next year or two (hopefully~) and while I'd be able to take advantage of 4 months where I'll have vacation and 1 month where I'll have training, it still won't be right when I get a line yet others above me don't.
Lots of Post Merger New Hires here how don't know how/why we got to where we are with regards to our PBS. Maybe some of these discussion raise awareness~
Motch
10-07-2019, 06:37 PM
#186
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 1,982
Originally Posted by LJ Driver
Can you guys explain “aggressive pickup”, how that works and what it accomplishes? I think I have a basic understanding but want your input.
It’s a way to choose your own poison.
10-08-2019, 05:17 AM
#188
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 917
Originally Posted by pilotgolfer
If you start a block of say 4 reserve days tomorrow, you can go into the open time and aggressively pickup a trip that suits your needs or desires. So if you are a commuter, maybe you will pick a trip that leaves in the afternoon so you have time to get there. Once you pickup a trip, you don’t have to worry about checking your schedule or answering your phone.
It’s a way to choose your own poison.
It’s a way to choose your own poison.
In the example above you would only be allowed to pick up a 3 day or 4 day trip. This can be done right through the computer at 1055 am the day prior to the trip starting (or anytime thereafter), don't have to involve the crew desk at all.
If there is a 1 or a 2 day trip open, you can call the crew desk and ask to pick it up but they don't have to give it to you.
Aggressive pick up also can be used to pick up Short Call assignments for the next day. The crew desk gets to decide how many days those Short Call assignments are built for so, depending on what reserves they want to eventually assign them to, they can sharpshoot and build to target specific reserves for specific Short Calls. So if they have several reserves available for 3 days and several available for 4 days, they can build them as a 4 day Short Call and that way only a pilot available for 4 or 5 days could pick it up, so the 3 day guys are out of luck if they wanted a Short Call. There are very few restrictions on the company on Short Calls. What length of Short Calls (6 day Max), what time the Short Call starts, how many they can build for any given day, what time of day they actually build the Short Call (at least 10 hours before the start) are all at their discretion, so the Short Call games can be painful. Hopefully that will get "adjusted" in the next contract.
10-08-2019, 06:40 AM
#189
Squawking 2000
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Position: Skeptical
Posts: 737
A further complication is that a short call assignment will prevent you from aggressively picking up a trip that you would otherwise be contractually granted since you are already considered “on duty”. I’ve called before several times and they’ve usually been willing to adjust a SC end time to allow a legal pickup, but in the time it takes to process that call I just recently missed out on a HKG MX repo flight.
That 3 minute delay cost me a couple thousand dollars...
That 3 minute delay cost me a couple thousand dollars...
10-08-2019, 07:32 AM
#190
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,866
Originally Posted by Winston
A further complication is that a short call assignment will prevent you from aggressively picking up a trip that you would otherwise be contractually granted since you are already considered “on duty”. I’ve called before several times and they’ve usually been willing to adjust a SC end time to allow a legal pickup, but in the time it takes to process that call I just recently missed out on a HKG MX repo flight.
That 3 minute delay cost me a couple thousand dollars...
That 3 minute delay cost me a couple thousand dollars...
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