United vs UPS
03-31-2022 | 09:04 AM
#31
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 283
Likes: 17
I think a lot of those guys/gals that retire at UPS early see their 7-figure retirement accounts, plus a 6-figure annual pension, and decide that they can scrape by without working until 65. There’s less motivation to work when you’re that financially secure.
03-31-2022 | 10:15 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,201
Likes: 32
From: 4A2FU
Exactly. Working to 65 makes sense at UAL because there’s no pension that kicks in at 60 like it does at Brown and Purple, in fact, at purple if you’re fully vested in the pension by age 60, you’re giving the company $130k worth of free labor every year you stay beyond that.
03-31-2022 | 10:31 AM
#33
Generationally Damaged
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 365
Likes: 0
From: Dynamically Leveled
Exactly. Working to 65 makes sense at UAL because there’s no pension that kicks in at 60 like it does at Brown and Purple, in fact, at purple if you’re fully vested in the pension by age 60, you’re giving the company $130k worth of free labor every year you stay beyond that.
I REALLY like how you said that…once beyond 25 years of service and age 60, FedEx pilots don’t MAKE any additional money until after $130k for the year. They were gonna get that anyway. Dang, mind blown. Thank you for that.
03-31-2022 | 11:19 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,083
Likes: 0
From a UAL guy:
1) Get some type of reserve gig to A) Get a retirement and B) Have a landing spot in the event of a furlough… especially if you decide on UAL.
2) All else being equal (it never is) UPS is the choice based on two factors… retirement and probably of furlough. Flying with pax and FAs rarely is a problem, the “culture” is probably better at UAL (I’m told), and there’s more flying during “normal” hours, but that doesn’t come close to overcoming the UPS advantage in the other areas.
3) I’ve never commuted to my airline gig and only briefly commuted to the reserves, but I’m told driving to work makes the job waaaaay better. The only reason I’d think about UAL is if you can’t talk your wife into staying in the SDF area. If you do move to DC and go to UAL, you can try to make up some of the retirement difference by picking up “premium pay” trips and banking the money in a retirement account, but that’s hit and miss.
1) Get some type of reserve gig to A) Get a retirement and B) Have a landing spot in the event of a furlough… especially if you decide on UAL.
2) All else being equal (it never is) UPS is the choice based on two factors… retirement and probably of furlough. Flying with pax and FAs rarely is a problem, the “culture” is probably better at UAL (I’m told), and there’s more flying during “normal” hours, but that doesn’t come close to overcoming the UPS advantage in the other areas.
3) I’ve never commuted to my airline gig and only briefly commuted to the reserves, but I’m told driving to work makes the job waaaaay better. The only reason I’d think about UAL is if you can’t talk your wife into staying in the SDF area. If you do move to DC and go to UAL, you can try to make up some of the retirement difference by picking up “premium pay” trips and banking the money in a retirement account, but that’s hit and miss.
05-29-2022 | 12:35 PM
#35
Tu-144 VV-A14 KR860 Typed
Joined: May 2022
Posts: 155
Likes: 52
Definitely first world problems!!
If you are thinking that the move to N Virginia is going to happen I would definitely say UA. Commuting loses to driving to work every time.
As far as upgrades go, NB Captain went unfilled in DCA (as well as EWR, SFO,and LAX) on the vacancy bid in December, so getting a Captain slot in less than 4.5 - 5 years seems fairly likely.
Washington offers every airplane we fly, so if you wanted to try WB Intl you would absolutely have that available as well. If you don't want that, no issue just stay on the 737 or A320.
The Washington base does have to cover DCA, IAD and BWI. The 777 and 787 only fly out of IAD and that is where the base offices are located. The 756 flys predominently out of IAD, but you could theoretically see trips that start in BWI or DCA. The 737 and A320 fleets fly out of all three and the percentages of trips that start and end in each location vary month to month. I am sure a DC person could weigh in on which fleet sees more of each location. IAD has the most flights, so I think no matter the fleet that is where most of the trips start and end.
Here is the current language on call out times for Short Call reserves:
20-A-4 Call-Out Time
20-A-4-a A Reserve in a Short Call window or a Lineholder in a telephone availability window must be able to report for duty (call-out time), including to a Field Standby assignment, no more than two hours and thirty minutes (2:30) after the Company’s initial attempt at contact. Consideration shall be given to heavy traffic, construction, and similar circumstances. When the call-out time is less than three (3) hours, to effectuate an on-time Departure or a Field Standby report time, the Pilot may elect to pay for parking closer to the terminal and shall be reimbursed for such expense. Additionally, at Bases with co-terminals, consideration shall be given if the Pilot is given an assignment that reports at an airport that is not the primary airport of the Base.
20-A-4-b If such a Pilot accepts and fulfills a call-out time requirement that is from one hour thirty minutes (1:30) to two hours fifteen minutes (2:15) of the Company’s initial attempt at contact, he shall receive one (1) hour of Add Pay. If a Pilot accepts and fulfills a call-out time requirement that is less than one hour thirty minutes (1:30) of the Company’s initial attempt at contact, he shall receive two (2) hours of Add Pay.
I believe in Washington the 2.5 hour callout time is a little fuzzy as you may be 2 hours from IAD but more than 2.5 from BWI or vice versa. So, if you can show that you are within 2.5 hours of one of the airports you are prob ok. ( I am not a lawyer so don't take my word on this, ask the ALPA folks when you come aboard)
If you are thinking that the move to N Virginia is going to happen I would definitely say UA. Commuting loses to driving to work every time.
As far as upgrades go, NB Captain went unfilled in DCA (as well as EWR, SFO,and LAX) on the vacancy bid in December, so getting a Captain slot in less than 4.5 - 5 years seems fairly likely.
Washington offers every airplane we fly, so if you wanted to try WB Intl you would absolutely have that available as well. If you don't want that, no issue just stay on the 737 or A320.
The Washington base does have to cover DCA, IAD and BWI. The 777 and 787 only fly out of IAD and that is where the base offices are located. The 756 flys predominently out of IAD, but you could theoretically see trips that start in BWI or DCA. The 737 and A320 fleets fly out of all three and the percentages of trips that start and end in each location vary month to month. I am sure a DC person could weigh in on which fleet sees more of each location. IAD has the most flights, so I think no matter the fleet that is where most of the trips start and end.
Here is the current language on call out times for Short Call reserves:
20-A-4 Call-Out Time
20-A-4-a A Reserve in a Short Call window or a Lineholder in a telephone availability window must be able to report for duty (call-out time), including to a Field Standby assignment, no more than two hours and thirty minutes (2:30) after the Company’s initial attempt at contact. Consideration shall be given to heavy traffic, construction, and similar circumstances. When the call-out time is less than three (3) hours, to effectuate an on-time Departure or a Field Standby report time, the Pilot may elect to pay for parking closer to the terminal and shall be reimbursed for such expense. Additionally, at Bases with co-terminals, consideration shall be given if the Pilot is given an assignment that reports at an airport that is not the primary airport of the Base.
20-A-4-b If such a Pilot accepts and fulfills a call-out time requirement that is from one hour thirty minutes (1:30) to two hours fifteen minutes (2:15) of the Company’s initial attempt at contact, he shall receive one (1) hour of Add Pay. If a Pilot accepts and fulfills a call-out time requirement that is less than one hour thirty minutes (1:30) of the Company’s initial attempt at contact, he shall receive two (2) hours of Add Pay.
I believe in Washington the 2.5 hour callout time is a little fuzzy as you may be 2 hours from IAD but more than 2.5 from BWI or vice versa. So, if you can show that you are within 2.5 hours of one of the airports you are prob ok. ( I am not a lawyer so don't take my word on this, ask the ALPA folks when you come aboard)
Can anyone chime in on the "Primary Airport of the Base" or confirm that you only need to be within 2.5 hours of one of them? Is IAD primary for DC area and EWR for NYC? Assuming an equal commute to both cities, could anyone weigh in on local reserve life for either Airbus or 737 (e.g. NYC reserve is friendlier to 737 pilots, DCA to Airbus, etc)? Thank you so much!
05-29-2022 | 08:02 PM
#36
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,631
Likes: 80
This is an awesome post for the logistics of reserve for new hires. Much appreciated.
Can anyone chime in on the "Primary Airport of the Base" or confirm that you only need to be within 2.5 hours of one of them? Is IAD primary for DC area and EWR for NYC? Assuming an equal commute to both cities, could anyone weigh in on local reserve life for either Airbus or 737 (e.g. NYC reserve is friendlier to 737 pilots, DCA to Airbus, etc)? Thank you so much!
Can anyone chime in on the "Primary Airport of the Base" or confirm that you only need to be within 2.5 hours of one of them? Is IAD primary for DC area and EWR for NYC? Assuming an equal commute to both cities, could anyone weigh in on local reserve life for either Airbus or 737 (e.g. NYC reserve is friendlier to 737 pilots, DCA to Airbus, etc)? Thank you so much!
so, if you want to cover, essentially, one airport, go 737. The bus is like 60/40 LGA/EWR, so you’re always back and forth. Yeah, there’s an override pay but I don’t think it’s worth it as a commuter.
05-30-2022 | 09:06 PM
#37
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
[QUOTE=rvfanatic;3397838…….United guys tend to enjoy their job more and stay until 65.[/QUOTE]
Really, “enjoy their job more”.
More than likely because UPS ( FedEx) still have an A Plan that pays out $132,000/yr.
After 9/11 and the bankruptcies, the pax carriers got rid of their A Plans & guys need to work longer in order to live large in retirement.
Really, “enjoy their job more”.
More than likely because UPS ( FedEx) still have an A Plan that pays out $132,000/yr.
After 9/11 and the bankruptcies, the pax carriers got rid of their A Plans & guys need to work longer in order to live large in retirement.
06-14-2022 | 10:36 AM
#38
Line Holder
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Lifestyle question
Sorry to reinvigorate this old thread. Anyone know what the average trips are like at United vs UPS? What is the average trip length? Type of flying? I keep hearing United - shorter trip lengths, but probably working more days overall with less pay vs UPS - longer trips and times away from home, but also large chunks at home and better pay. Can anyone with actual expertise and knowledge chime in? Thanks!
06-14-2022 | 11:34 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 425
Likes: 0
Sorry to reinvigorate this old thread. Anyone know what the average trips are like at United vs UPS? What is the average trip length? Type of flying? I keep hearing United - shorter trip lengths, but probably working more days overall with less pay vs UPS - longer trips and times away from home, but also large chunks at home and better pay. Can anyone with actual expertise and knowledge chime in? Thanks!
06-14-2022 | 03:54 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
What you’re hearing is correct. United usually you’ll fly 3-4 day trips. Summer time gone about 18 days a month, less the rest of the year. I just had lunch with a UPS buddy who hired on same time as me. He’s blocked 20% less time his total career there than me, and made 33% more than me on his 2021 W2.
What most people fail to look at is the toll flying night hub turns takes on a body. Sure, your “buddy” made more last year, but did the actual fatigue and wear and tear in the body really make up for it??? I only ask because I’ve never met a 70/75/80 year old ex cargo dude…. But I know a lot of ex airline pilots that still live active and healthy lives after retirement.
But yeah, go for the money - if that’s all you care about…
Not a Brown dude.
But, yes, I flew cargo at an MD11/MD10 purple tail rival.
flame away purple dudes….
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