I don't know if you meant to post in this thread but there are other threads with a lot of similar questions being asked. In short no one knows the best route. I would go to a regional who will exist in two years and doesn't have a long backlog in training, worry about passing training, and once you hit the line fly your ass off while applying everywhere. Biggest thing is getting through training with a perfect record and the next is hours.

I would then look at upgrading asap. If spirit/frontier/jetblue... call that is the conundrum but a decision that can be made once you are there with an offer in hand. As soon as you are on the line somewhere you need to be networking, job fairs, interview prepping for a better job. I wouldn't go to a regional based on pay rates for the simple reason that a lot of these companies are in their death throws. This is a last ditch attempt to slow the bleeding until the lights are shut off. If you lose all your check airman, sim instructors, and pilot management you are left with a training pipeline that siezes up and an airline that spirals out of control. Even the "stable" regionals like skywest will be gone in 2 years if attrition stays where it is. The rats are running for the exits and you need to be the faster rat.

 

Because OP is trying to make a point. About half of the current United pilot group worked for peanuts for a decade or more just to get a shot of working for a Legacy and we owe it to ourselves to ask for more than what we are being offered given the current pilot shortage and what they can afford to pay the pilots that fly for a subcontractor of our very own airline.

 

Is this sarcasm? Gas used to be under $1, so it must be going back to $1 right? Houses under $100k? New cars $5-$10k? It’s unreasonable and I unsustainable if they don’t, right? It’s just too much! It’s not letting cool heads prevail to ask for wages below inflation, it’s putting your head in the sand.


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This. We may not be talking about 60%, but until just a few weeks ago, a prevailing attitude was that a pay adjustment equal to inflation was an unfair expectation. That attitude seems to be quickly fading & I'm not sorry to see it go. I’ll never apologize for being unwilling to subsidize my employer’s profits by sacrificing my wages to inflation.

To the point we can do even better, great. If this truly is just a moment in time producing unsustainable gains, my position is I’d like to take that ride. The company will demand concessions when things go bad whether we make big gains now or stay with our current contract, so I’ll take the gains today & fight tomorrow’s battle tomorrow.

 

Because he is hoping that by informing us of the market, we can all increase our lot in life. Maybe he can fwd the deal to you…

 

GMAFB. Who needs him to 'inform' us on the market. It sounds like petulant whining to me. Seriously, does ANYONE think we don't need a significant pay raise?? If he's trying to make a point maybe he should articulate it like a grown up. Ive always supported improvements at for the bottom of the seniority list and will continue to do so, but it's pretty tone deaf for junior pilots to talk about how 'crappy' this career is and how they can make twice as much at their old job. Go the **** back then.

 

Yes. They call themselves “the negotiating committee”.

 

And I think they were shown the error of their ways.

We all see the massive percentage increases at the feeders now....and there certainly is a message we should get from that. But if you think the message is that we should get equally massive percentage pay increases then you're just not being serious. The real lesson is that all of the stops are being pulled out to neutralize our 'pilot shortage' leverage! Those feeder pay rates are the death gasps of those carriers (and hopefully the entire FFD model). We should be focused on locking in REAL attainable gains, fighting off the coming attempts to quickly increase the pilot supply, and negotiating conditions to protect our gains in the future. As far as the buddy making $65k/mo at a regional? I say good for him! If he's old enough and able to ride the 2-5 year wave into retirement then it's a well deserved cherry on top of a relatively crappy career. If he's a young guy then his gains will be eroded by the loss of mainline seniority. I hope he's the former....we all need a good break sometime.

 

But it seems like senior like to try to take a **** on junior pilots for calling it like they see it.

I got shat on awhile back for saying that I’ll be shocked if the MEC sent out a TA to the pilot group immediately after the WO’s got their pay raises…. I felt that the market forces has shifted and that whatever was being negotiated needed should have been revisited.

Yet, here we are…. It’s tone deaf to ignore the grievances of those junior to you or members that you represent if you are a union rep. Clearly this is something that this MEC and Negotiating Committe demonstrated.

No one in their right mind will entertain going back to a old job that left United for rather it’s a regional or ACMI.

 

Lol no one junior is saying “this job sucks, I want to go back to the regional.”

They’re saying “The rates the regionals are able to cough up indicate we’re grossly underpaid as mainline pilots, as exemplified by the fact that I could go back to my old job and make more money, so we should fight for those rates”.

I’m sure AA is losing money on their LCA pay but the fact that MESA can pay $7 an hour more to first year FO’s than United is embarrassing. I don’t buy the “it’s just paying for the wind-down” crap. Air Wisconsin, while not raising pay as much as Mesa or the AA wo carriers, just gave significant raises in prep for a new 5 year deal with AA. They wouldn’t ink a new deal just to lose money on pay rates.

ZW is currently paying first year FO’s 1.20/seat to fly 50 seat CRJ’s. On top of that they’re paying overhead and accounting for profit margin. By that math NB FO’s here should be making at least in the 170-190 an hour range.

We are not currently choking the golden goose by the neck until it gives us every last egg. A 20-30 percent raise is absolutely what we deserve and the market will support it.