United: The Saga Continues
10-18-2022 | 03:51 PM
#31
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 934
Likes: 22
Actually.. it's pretty smart as they can just adjust the G Line in EWR and all of a sudden, they still have pilots sitting reserve on the narrowbodies and the mid seniority pilots who are sitting FO all of a sudden take a Left Seat at a new base, or finally move over into the Left seat in EWR.
The goal of the company is to mitigate empty left seat bids. They can fill the right seat all day long with new hires!
If you look at last bid, you will see-
DCA 73 32 Unfilled
EWR A320 6 Unfilled
EWR 73 46 Unfilled
LAX 73 52 Unfilled
SFO 73 45 Unfilled
Yet no slots for those unfilled positions on this latest Vacancy Bid.
Couple of things are happening-
1) They are "pocketing them" for an upcoming Base/Equipment/Seat announce Bid
2) They are "concerned" that the 73Max 10 debacle will cause lower new aircraft arrival next year.
Guess we will hear a little more of it in the Earnings Report.. and when they make the announcement of the new BES's.
Always
Motch
PS) I'm betting MCO, BOS and LAS as the new BES's and they will have NO Problem filling those~ And not all at once either.
The goal of the company is to mitigate empty left seat bids. They can fill the right seat all day long with new hires!
If you look at last bid, you will see-
DCA 73 32 Unfilled
EWR A320 6 Unfilled
EWR 73 46 Unfilled
LAX 73 52 Unfilled
SFO 73 45 Unfilled
Yet no slots for those unfilled positions on this latest Vacancy Bid.
Couple of things are happening-
1) They are "pocketing them" for an upcoming Base/Equipment/Seat announce Bid
2) They are "concerned" that the 73Max 10 debacle will cause lower new aircraft arrival next year.
Guess we will hear a little more of it in the Earnings Report.. and when they make the announcement of the new BES's.
Always
Motch
PS) I'm betting MCO, BOS and LAS as the new BES's and they will have NO Problem filling those~ And not all at once either.
10-18-2022 | 04:17 PM
#32
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 670
Likes: 1
that could make some sense, and the reopening of 777 at Ord/lax, and add den while we’re at it. Company can’t fill sfo777 but they could sure as hell find takers for den777. So much flying thru den and lax now it seems.
it’s a new environment, company is adjusting to it, they have no choice basically. Not enough pilots for every airlines’ growth plans. What separates the airlines all on top tier contracts…..1 word, domiciles.
it’s a new environment, company is adjusting to it, they have no choice basically. Not enough pilots for every airlines’ growth plans. What separates the airlines all on top tier contracts…..1 word, domiciles.
10-18-2022 | 04:46 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 3,637
Likes: 212
With the current spread from junior reserve to junior lineholder being about 7 years, it looks like a little longer than that. Fix reserve and you probably would be looking at quite a bit longer. It’s science.
10-18-2022 | 04:58 PM
#34
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Joined: Sep 2017
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From: MEC Chairman, Snack Basket Committee
I think the bidding behaviors of certain age groups will defy the science. All projections have assumptions. It's not a simple numbers game
10-18-2022 | 05:20 PM
#36
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Joined: Sep 2017
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From: MEC Chairman, Snack Basket Committee
Everybody... these are generalizations
Millenials- late starters on life due to financial crisis out of college etc, late to marry, late to have kids.. trying to buy homes during historic inflation and appreciation, need higher wages just to get started. More mobile than older crowd and willing to upgrade in base due to QOL bump from more $$. Knows music could stop anytime.
Z (pilots only)- Just got here. Walked Into the best hiring environment in 35 yrs, only known the good times, young, hungry, often single or newly we'd, highly mobile and flexible, willing to upgrade and take the cash and play like a 25-28yr old would want to. More trusting of management growth aspirations than other gens.
X- burned and burned badly. Like a beaten puppy. Only known bad times and cant wrap head around latest industry developments. Highly skeptical of everything related to this job. QOL for them means only one thing- Senior FO on a livable wage. Commonly commuters. Won't touch the left seat until they are well-established LH captains. Won't upgrade after TA2 because the reserve rule improvements have to be higher than we'll likely get at 51%+.
Boomers- jumping out of those ugly coastal bases for those sweet low tax states, should we get them. Kids gone. No need for that expensive house in orange county. Retiring soon. Time to shore up finances & spend time on a boat telling stories of BK/Mergers. Bidding behaviors in this regard only exacerbate coastal vacancies.
Millenials- late starters on life due to financial crisis out of college etc, late to marry, late to have kids.. trying to buy homes during historic inflation and appreciation, need higher wages just to get started. More mobile than older crowd and willing to upgrade in base due to QOL bump from more $$. Knows music could stop anytime.
Z (pilots only)- Just got here. Walked Into the best hiring environment in 35 yrs, only known the good times, young, hungry, often single or newly we'd, highly mobile and flexible, willing to upgrade and take the cash and play like a 25-28yr old would want to. More trusting of management growth aspirations than other gens.
X- burned and burned badly. Like a beaten puppy. Only known bad times and cant wrap head around latest industry developments. Highly skeptical of everything related to this job. QOL for them means only one thing- Senior FO on a livable wage. Commonly commuters. Won't touch the left seat until they are well-established LH captains. Won't upgrade after TA2 because the reserve rule improvements have to be higher than we'll likely get at 51%+.
Boomers- jumping out of those ugly coastal bases for those sweet low tax states, should we get them. Kids gone. No need for that expensive house in orange county. Retiring soon. Time to shore up finances & spend time on a boat telling stories of BK/Mergers. Bidding behaviors in this regard only exacerbate coastal vacancies.
Last edited by BobbyLeeSwagger; 10-18-2022 at 05:38 PM.
10-18-2022 | 05:43 PM
#37
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,450
Likes: 10
My years in the industry have given me the cynical belief that everyone talks big in the cockpit & online. Few admit to being money chasers but there are plenty out there. (That’s not to say they don’t understand the importance of a good contract, just that they’re willing to do the hard work for extra pay.) Along very general lines I tend to agree with Bobby Lee’s demographic analysis above. Time will tell.
10-18-2022 | 05:52 PM
#38
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Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 66
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Everybody... these are generalizations
Millenials- late starters on life due to financial crisis out of college etc, late to marry, late to have kids.. trying to buy homes during historic inflation and appreciation, need higher wages just to get started. More mobile than older crowd and willing to upgrade in base due to QOL bump from more $$. Knows music could stop anytime.
Z (pilots only)- Just got here. Walked Into the best hiring environment in 35 yrs, only known the good times, young, hungry, often single or newly we'd, highly mobile and flexible, willing to upgrade and take the cash and play like a 25-28yr old would want to. More trusting of management growth aspirations than other gens.
X- burned and burned badly. Like a beaten puppy. Only known bad times and cant wrap head around latest industry developments. Highly skeptical of everything related to this job. QOL for them means only one thing- Senior FO on a livable wage. Commonly commuters. Won't touch the left seat until they are well-established LH captains. Won't upgrade after TA2 because the reserve rule improvements have to be higher than we'll likely get at 51%+.
Boomers- jumping out of those ugly coastal bases for those sweet low tax states, should we get them. Kids gone. No need for that expensive house in orange county. Retiring soon. Time to shore up finances & spend time on a boat telling stories of BK/Mergers. Bidding behaviors in this regard only exacerbate coastal vacancies.
Millenials- late starters on life due to financial crisis out of college etc, late to marry, late to have kids.. trying to buy homes during historic inflation and appreciation, need higher wages just to get started. More mobile than older crowd and willing to upgrade in base due to QOL bump from more $$. Knows music could stop anytime.
Z (pilots only)- Just got here. Walked Into the best hiring environment in 35 yrs, only known the good times, young, hungry, often single or newly we'd, highly mobile and flexible, willing to upgrade and take the cash and play like a 25-28yr old would want to. More trusting of management growth aspirations than other gens.
X- burned and burned badly. Like a beaten puppy. Only known bad times and cant wrap head around latest industry developments. Highly skeptical of everything related to this job. QOL for them means only one thing- Senior FO on a livable wage. Commonly commuters. Won't touch the left seat until they are well-established LH captains. Won't upgrade after TA2 because the reserve rule improvements have to be higher than we'll likely get at 51%+.
Boomers- jumping out of those ugly coastal bases for those sweet low tax states, should we get them. Kids gone. No need for that expensive house in orange county. Retiring soon. Time to shore up finances & spend time on a boat telling stories of BK/Mergers. Bidding behaviors in this regard only exacerbate coastal vacancies.
Great Summation!
10-19-2022 | 06:02 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,738
Likes: 5
From: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
Everybody... these are generalizations
Millenials- late starters on life due to financial crisis out of college etc, late to marry, late to have kids.. trying to buy homes during historic inflation and appreciation, need higher wages just to get started. More mobile than older crowd and willing to upgrade in base due to QOL bump from more $$. Knows music could stop anytime.
Z (pilots only)- Just got here. Walked Into the best hiring environment in 35 yrs, only known the good times, young, hungry, often single or newly we'd, highly mobile and flexible, willing to upgrade and take the cash and play like a 25-28yr old would want to. More trusting of management growth aspirations than other gens.
X- burned and burned badly. Like a beaten puppy. Only known bad times and cant wrap head around latest industry developments. Highly skeptical of everything related to this job. QOL for them means only one thing- Senior FO on a livable wage. Commonly commuters. Won't touch the left seat until they are well-established LH captains. Won't upgrade after TA2 because the reserve rule improvements have to be higher than we'll likely get at 51%+.
Boomers- jumping out of those ugly coastal bases for those sweet low tax states, should we get them. Kids gone. No need for that expensive house in orange county. Retiring soon. Time to shore up finances & spend time on a boat telling stories of BK/Mergers. Bidding behaviors in this regard only exacerbate coastal vacancies.
Millenials- late starters on life due to financial crisis out of college etc, late to marry, late to have kids.. trying to buy homes during historic inflation and appreciation, need higher wages just to get started. More mobile than older crowd and willing to upgrade in base due to QOL bump from more $$. Knows music could stop anytime.
Z (pilots only)- Just got here. Walked Into the best hiring environment in 35 yrs, only known the good times, young, hungry, often single or newly we'd, highly mobile and flexible, willing to upgrade and take the cash and play like a 25-28yr old would want to. More trusting of management growth aspirations than other gens.
X- burned and burned badly. Like a beaten puppy. Only known bad times and cant wrap head around latest industry developments. Highly skeptical of everything related to this job. QOL for them means only one thing- Senior FO on a livable wage. Commonly commuters. Won't touch the left seat until they are well-established LH captains. Won't upgrade after TA2 because the reserve rule improvements have to be higher than we'll likely get at 51%+.
Boomers- jumping out of those ugly coastal bases for those sweet low tax states, should we get them. Kids gone. No need for that expensive house in orange county. Retiring soon. Time to shore up finances & spend time on a boat telling stories of BK/Mergers. Bidding behaviors in this regard only exacerbate coastal vacancies.
I sincerely hope that Gen Z doesn’t get to learn the lessons that management taught us. I don’t trust the SOBs and I never will. Unfortunately at the moment ALPA is a bigger threat than management.
I expect management to try and bite us on every contract. I don’t expect ALPA to pet them on the head and encourage them like they did on TA-1.
Kind of reminds me of the Whiteford days. Gen Z needs to understand that management is not your friend and ALPA apparently needs to relearn the same.
10-19-2022 | 07:26 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 358
Likes: 0
Everybody... these are generalizations
X- burned and burned badly. Like a beaten puppy. Only known bad times and cant wrap head around latest industry developments. Highly skeptical of everything related to this job. QOL for them means only one thing- Senior FO on a livable wage. Commonly commuters. Won't touch the left seat until they are well-established LH captains. Won't upgrade after TA2 because the reserve rule improvements have to be higher than we'll likely get at 51%+.
].
X- burned and burned badly. Like a beaten puppy. Only known bad times and cant wrap head around latest industry developments. Highly skeptical of everything related to this job. QOL for them means only one thing- Senior FO on a livable wage. Commonly commuters. Won't touch the left seat until they are well-established LH captains. Won't upgrade after TA2 because the reserve rule improvements have to be higher than we'll likely get at 51%+.
].
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