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- - Delta AIP (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/140587-delta-aip.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DashTrash (Post 3543297)

I am just shaking my head…. It seems like 90+% on here are so focused on pay rates. That is how dumb decisions happen!!! Take the shiny object, and not see the forest through the trees.

Pay rates are important, but not as important as work rules!!! I will gladly sacrifice pay rates for significant advances in Sections 5 & 20. Obviously zero concessions regarding scope!!! To me R & I is more important than pay rates!!!

I concur completely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunvox (Post 3543135)

First no way our pay rates will end up 5% higher than Delta's so, yes, the percent for us will be less and MUST be because AGAIN . . . no way we end up 5% over Delta.

Imagine if you will we get a 13/5/5/5 offer with no concessions, minor QOL gains, and a bump in some non-tax areas. Then UAL pilots vote it down. Months pass and we approach a release date. The potential for a strike becomes front page news in all the media outlets. Just happened to the railway workers, and they got a contract imposed on them by Congress with one extra day off and a 24% raise. So you guys think we can turn down 34% in total raises and Congress will let us strike for more?

Personally I don't think that is remotely possible, and I pray to God most pilots realize that as well. Fortunately, I think they do and will go on record here taking a WAG that the Delta AIP will become a TA and will get voted in 70/30 or higher.

Your evaluation of the rail strike and its implications for us is quite flawed. There were a number of factors in play there that are not in our situation.

First, the rail strike would have effected a very large amount of the economy, and for many there are no other solutions for their freight. A major airline strike would not affect the same wide swath of the economy, and there are other ways to pick up the transportation slack left behind. This would reduce the political pressure considerably to impose a contract.

Second, pattern bargaining really hurt them here. I think it was 8? out of the 12 rail unions had already accepted the deal, establishing a “pattern” demonstrating that this contract is what the industry would support. Pattern bargaining worked in management’s favor here. In our case, there is not this same pattern or even really the same structure.

Third, Christmas shipping.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DashTrash (Post 3543297)

^^^^^. This ^^^^^

Quote:

Originally Posted by fadec (Post 3543292)

The company was pretty smart to give that 5% raise early. It was smart of ALPA to accept it early too. Otherwise we might have negotiated Delta rates without it and then gotten the 5% raise on top, something so unaffordable it would sink the company.

Now this is a good example of what you’re capable of. Keep up this level of trolling, FADEC.

Is it possible to see what our MEC and NC are even asking for from management? Even if it’s ball park or vague on some of the details. There has to be a summary sheet somewhere out there. I feel like we are in the dark like TA1.

It’s safe to say the trust just isn’t there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaginCajun (Post 3543420)

9/4/3, and reserve starts at 3am.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaginCajun (Post 3543420)

I wouldn’t be surprised if our MEC ask was below DAL. They are now trying to figure out how to “save face”

Quote:

Originally Posted by TFAYD (Post 3543435)

I wouldn’t be surprised if our MEC ask was below DAL. They are now trying to figure out how to “save face”

Now that’s embarrassing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaginCajun (Post 3543420)

How many union meetings have you been to? What dialog to have with your reps?

Everyone is new once, but you seem overly clueless about process. This isn’t criticism, but an observation. How plugged in are you to learning about process?

Posting on APC and expecting results don’t count.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DashTrash (Post 3543297)

Couldn’t agree more. Some folks are very shortsighted and focus on the pay rates alone. Our work rules in general are sub par at best and need major overhauls and upgrades. Personally I’ve been in this business since 1990 and I keep hearing “we got you the pay this time, we’ll work on the QOL issues next time”. There’s NEVER a next time!! Line in the sand is drawn. Enough already and fix these items.