We are not close
04-02-2023, 06:48 PM
#192
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 444
Originally Posted by Otterbox
Negotiations Update
As we exit a third week of intensive offsite negotiations, every aspect of the APA Board of Directors’ (BOD) global framework has been placed on the table, discussed, negotiated, and costed. We believe that a comprehensive Agreement in Principle (AIP) is near. This week, we will meet with the BOD to discuss and evaluate current progress, while simultaneously continuing to negotiate for a deal that represents the pay, work rules, and quality of work life our industry commands and which you have earned.
…..
As we exit a third week of intensive offsite negotiations, every aspect of the APA Board of Directors’ (BOD) global framework has been placed on the table, discussed, negotiated, and costed. We believe that a comprehensive Agreement in Principle (AIP) is near. This week, we will meet with the BOD to discuss and evaluate current progress, while simultaneously continuing to negotiate for a deal that represents the pay, work rules, and quality of work life our industry commands and which you have earned.
…..
04-03-2023, 02:00 AM
#194
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 311
Originally Posted by ClappedOut145
Tack on another two months for negotiations then? If APA comes to an AIP will we pause to see what happens and then start up again after they vote?
04-03-2023, 03:24 AM
#195
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2022
Posts: 146
Originally Posted by hummingbear
This. It’s becoming obvious when Scott said it could be done in 2 weeks what he meant was the union could roll over & take whatever he was offering in 2 weeks. Getting what we want will take longer.
As a side note, when he has you calling him by his first name, he and that little koolaid course are winning.
04-03-2023, 05:29 PM
#198
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,316
Originally Posted by Spesiellsporing
Just think of all the money the company has saved so we the pilots can self fund our eventual contract. I'm hearing anywhere from $5,000,000-7,000,000 per day. It's just business. What's the rush?
As a side note, when he has you calling him by his first name, he and that little koolaid course are winning.
As a side note, when he has you calling him by his first name, he and that little koolaid course are winning.
Secondly, I use Scott, Kirby, SK, & any other shorthand moniker interchangeably without a lot of consideration about the “messaging”; as I did with *gasp* Oscar, Jeff, etc. I guess somehow “Scott” is an act of obeisance where “Kirby” displays my fierce independence? (Ooh, that’ll show him!) Come on, it’s an internet forum- I’m not having the guy over for Sunday dinner. But to your point about the koolaid classes, I’d say your completely out-of-your-hat number of $5M-$7M per day is being partially offset by what’s being lost on messaging. What most of us who have been in this industry a while already know is that this job is really easy if you just stop caring- about the company, the operation; the customers. Once people figure that out, it becomes very hard to convince them that it’s worth it to care again. And once enough people figure it out, you’ve lost control of your product.
Every day this drags on, we mint another UAL pilot who isn’t buying into the corporate cheerleading campaign. (If AA beats us to the punch, that will be another massive recruitment event to the ranks of the disaffected, IMO.) Most of these will not be won back simply by finally completing a contract- they will require something more to move them from their newfound stasis.
Whether *ahem* Kirby understands it or not, whatever he’s saving on delayed negotiations isn’t as simple as just a pure net gain. As I’ve said it before, pay up now & get something for it, or pay the same amount later & get nothing.
04-03-2023, 07:50 PM
#199
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Posts: 123
Originally Posted by hummingbear
I mean by that logic, we should have just signed TUMI 1 & locked in our “industry leading” 9% before we found ourselves in the current predicament of losing millions per day. Yes, there’s a monetary value of time, and there comes a point where continued delays are not worth potentially minor gains to the final product. To the extent we’re still talking about major contractual issues & shorter timelines, I don’t think we’re at that tipping point yet.
Secondly, I use Scott, Kirby, SK, & any other shorthand moniker interchangeably without a lot of consideration about the “messaging”; as I did with *gasp* Oscar, Jeff, etc. I guess somehow “Scott” is an act of obeisance where “Kirby” displays my fierce independence? (Ooh, that’ll show him!) Come on, it’s an internet forum- I’m not having the guy over for Sunday dinner. But to your point about the koolaid classes, I’d say your completely out-of-your-hat number of $5M-$7M per day is being partially offset by what’s being lost on messaging. What most of us who have been in this industry a while already know is that this job is really easy if you just stop caring- about the company, the operation; the customers. Once people figure that out, it becomes very hard to convince them that it’s worth it to care again. And once enough people figure it out, you’ve lost control of your product.
Every day this drags on, we mint another UAL pilot who isn’t buying into the corporate cheerleading campaign. (If AA beats us to the punch, that will be another massive recruitment event to the ranks of the disaffected, IMO.) Most of these will not be won back simply by finally completing a contract- they will require something more to move them from their newfound stasis.
Whether *ahem* Kirby understands it or not, whatever he’s saving on delayed negotiations isn’t as simple as just a pure net gain. As I’ve said it before, pay up now & get something for it, or pay the same amount later & get nothing.
Secondly, I use Scott, Kirby, SK, & any other shorthand moniker interchangeably without a lot of consideration about the “messaging”; as I did with *gasp* Oscar, Jeff, etc. I guess somehow “Scott” is an act of obeisance where “Kirby” displays my fierce independence? (Ooh, that’ll show him!) Come on, it’s an internet forum- I’m not having the guy over for Sunday dinner. But to your point about the koolaid classes, I’d say your completely out-of-your-hat number of $5M-$7M per day is being partially offset by what’s being lost on messaging. What most of us who have been in this industry a while already know is that this job is really easy if you just stop caring- about the company, the operation; the customers. Once people figure that out, it becomes very hard to convince them that it’s worth it to care again. And once enough people figure it out, you’ve lost control of your product.
Every day this drags on, we mint another UAL pilot who isn’t buying into the corporate cheerleading campaign. (If AA beats us to the punch, that will be another massive recruitment event to the ranks of the disaffected, IMO.) Most of these will not be won back simply by finally completing a contract- they will require something more to move them from their newfound stasis.
Whether *ahem* Kirby understands it or not, whatever he’s saving on delayed negotiations isn’t as simple as just a pure net gain. As I’ve said it before, pay up now & get something for it, or pay the same amount later & get nothing.
04-04-2023, 04:58 AM
#200
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2022
Posts: 146
Originally Posted by hummingbear
I mean by that logic, we should have just signed TUMI 1 & locked in our “industry leading” 9% before we found ourselves in the current predicament of losing millions per day. Yes, there’s a monetary value of time, and there comes a point where continued delays are not worth potentially minor gains to the final product. To the extent we’re still talking about major contractual issues & shorter timelines, I don’t think we’re at that tipping point yet.
Secondly, I use Scott, Kirby, SK, & any other shorthand moniker interchangeably without a lot of consideration about the “messaging”; as I did with *gasp* Oscar, Jeff, etc. I guess somehow “Scott” is an act of obeisance where “Kirby” displays my fierce independence? (Ooh, that’ll show him!) Come on, it’s an internet forum- I’m not having the guy over for Sunday dinner. But to your point about the koolaid classes, I’d say your completely out-of-your-hat number of $5M-$7M per day is being partially offset by what’s being lost on messaging. What most of us who have been in this industry a while already know is that this job is really easy if you just stop caring- about the company, the operation; the customers. Once people figure that out, it becomes very hard to convince them that it’s worth it to care again. And once enough people figure it out, you’ve lost control of your product.
Every day this drags on, we mint another UAL pilot who isn’t buying into the corporate cheerleading campaign. (If AA beats us to the punch, that will be another massive recruitment event to the ranks of the disaffected, IMO.) Most of these will not be won back simply by finally completing a contract- they will require something more to move them from their newfound stasis.
Whether *ahem* Kirby understands it or not, whatever he’s saving on delayed negotiations isn’t as simple as just a pure net gain. As I’ve said it before, pay up now & get something for it, or pay the same amount later & get nothing.
Secondly, I use Scott, Kirby, SK, & any other shorthand moniker interchangeably without a lot of consideration about the “messaging”; as I did with *gasp* Oscar, Jeff, etc. I guess somehow “Scott” is an act of obeisance where “Kirby” displays my fierce independence? (Ooh, that’ll show him!) Come on, it’s an internet forum- I’m not having the guy over for Sunday dinner. But to your point about the koolaid classes, I’d say your completely out-of-your-hat number of $5M-$7M per day is being partially offset by what’s being lost on messaging. What most of us who have been in this industry a while already know is that this job is really easy if you just stop caring- about the company, the operation; the customers. Once people figure that out, it becomes very hard to convince them that it’s worth it to care again. And once enough people figure it out, you’ve lost control of your product.
Every day this drags on, we mint another UAL pilot who isn’t buying into the corporate cheerleading campaign. (If AA beats us to the punch, that will be another massive recruitment event to the ranks of the disaffected, IMO.) Most of these will not be won back simply by finally completing a contract- they will require something more to move them from their newfound stasis.
Whether *ahem* Kirby understands it or not, whatever he’s saving on delayed negotiations isn’t as simple as just a pure net gain. As I’ve said it before, pay up now & get something for it, or pay the same amount later & get nothing.
The company is not worried about losing the hearts and minds of the pilots during the Section 6 process. It will take A LOT more than that to lose a pilot group. But not to worry, if some pilots are lost a new CEO will step in with lots of smiles and say I'm not responsible for your past. The old guard pilots will be branded as angry and out of touch to silence them. Same as it ever was in my 32 years of flying.
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