Originally Posted by FangsF15

Just to make sure y'all are comparing apples/apples...

At DL, at zero cost to the pilot, upon exhausting all sick hours (up to 270), disability immediately pays 50% of your "Final Average Earnings" (aka FAE - the highest 12 consecutive of prior 36 months, with no cap, and no carveouts). PLUS, we get 401k input at 32/34/36% of that amount. IOW, your 401k inputs continue as if you were fully active at 16/17/18%. Both these payments continue until the "FAA regulatory mandated retirement age". The only 'offset' is if you have outside income that exceeds your 100% FAE. Which at the top end would mean you would have an outside job well into 6-figures before that's a factor... Not very likely. Of note, New Hires now have a floor of 1000 hours of pay in the FAE calculation at first year pay - no 'vesting' required. A huge improvement.

In addition, 99+% of DL pilots voluntarily participate in "Delta Pilot Mutual Aid" (DPMA), which is an after-tax mutual aid benefit at a cost of approximately 0.7%, or about $2k on $300k of pay. This benefit is tax-free, and will pay the pre-tax-equivalent of the other 50% of your FAE for up to 365 days per event, up to 730 total days in your career. (no limit on events, just total days). DPMA also starts the day after your sick leave is exhausted. So, unless you lose your medical for a duration which exceeds (up to) 4+12 months, you effectively continue to get your full 100% FAE, plus full 401k input.

Here is an example. Active WB Captains are routinely pushing $500,000 annually, plus profit sharing (this year will be ~10%, or $50k), plus $80,000 in their 401k (plus another $8,000 401k from profit sharing). If that pilot loses their medical today, that pilot will get $275,000 annually/$~23,000 monthly (taxed) until turning age 65, PLUS $88,000 annually in their 401k until turning 65, PLUS DMPA (untaxed) will pay that pilot a pre-tax-equivalent of $275,000 over the next year/365 days. All that for about $3850 this year in DPMA dues. If that same pilot happened to have a banner year, and made $800,000 2 years ago (which happened to more than a few at DL), well, you can do the (uncapped) math. It's a ****-ton of money until turning 65 (or maybe 67?).

You can decide if that is better or worse than your TA.

Originally Posted by guppie

Thanks for the input. The FAE portion is HUGE (vs 1062 x hourly rate). Even so, the high flying $500K example you list pays 23K monthly... or about $16K after tax (30% rate). Certainly better than our $13,600 Cap in 2023, but pretty close to our $15,975 cap in 2027. We also get the 2x - 401k contriubtions with this TA. We do pay a percentage, but it is pretty cheap...as an example, my cost last year was $1500, and that is falling by 28% in this TA.

The DPMA is also HUGE, but independent of Delta Airlines, right? Ualpa should definetly look into this VEBA benefit, although expensive, I'd pay it. It's a great benefit.

Originally Posted by Andy

There are a lot of us who are not (and will never be) WB CAs but are at maximum LTD payment. For us, this looks very close between the two programs. I'd call it a wash.
Run the numbers for a NB CA or a 756 CA on the blended rate. (I'm aware that there are a few 756 CAs who only fly the 400, but they can hold WB CA).

Plus, Delta's payment scheme benefits those that hustle quite a bit. For the average slacker, it should favor United's LTD system.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

Profit sharing also is counted for FAE at Delta. A 80K PS check will hoist your disability payment 40,000 a year.

Originally Posted by guppie

Thanks for the input. The FAE portion is HUGE (vs 1062 x hourly rate). Even so, the high flying $500K example you list pays 23K monthly... or about $16K after tax (30% rate). Certainly better than our $13,600 Cap in 2023, but pretty close to our $15,975 cap in 2027. We also get the 2x - 401k contriubtions with this TA. We do pay a percentage, but it is pretty cheap...as an example, my cost last year was $1500, and that is falling by 28% in this TA.

The DPMA is also HUGE, but independent of Delta Airlines, right? Ualpa should definetly look into this VEBA benefit, although expensive, I'd pay it. It's a great benefit.

Originally Posted by Andy

A) OK, what's a NB CA get in profit sharing? I assume that's WB CA money.
B) What's profit sharing?

Originally Posted by FangsF15

Correct, DPMA is entirely outside the company, and is not part of the Contract. I only include it since our LTD plan is at no cost to the pilot, but for a (similar?) overall cost, nearly all DL pilots can secure an additional 365 days of 'full pay' per medical event. If I'm not missing it, UA pilots do not have a comparable benefit currently. Almost zero pilots exhaust DPMA (and if you do, you stop paying DMPA 'dues').

One other thing I didn't mention, because it's not worth a whole lot... DL's Contract '15 added an additional "Enhanced Disability Benefit", which takes some unused sick hours each year and puts them in a 'bank' which pays on top of all else if you go on disability. Depending on how much sick you have used over the years, it could be worth very little, to maybe a month or two's pay. I currently have about 100 hours in mine. It's not a ton of 'extra' cash, but it does help some.

Again, just for apples/apples, those notional figures are for this year. Next year, our pay goes up 7% (thanks UALPA, for the additional 2%. Truly, thank you. Beer's on me) and 401k goes to 17%. By 2027, add about a grand to the post-tax LTD amount, plus another 25 grand in 401k.

One last aside, many pilots will try to have "a big year" (really, 12 consecutive months) once every 3 years as a hedge for a catastrophic event. Since there is no cap on FAE, it is an amazing benefit which make for an stress-free 'insurance policy' Especially since more and more pilots lose their medicals as they approach 65 when earnings are highest. Age 67 could be a major hit on the company's financials.

Again, I have no dog in your fight, just want folks to have accurate information to make an apples/apples comparison. Best of luck.

Originally Posted by FangsF15

I'm a NB CA, and am already over $300k this year, working 10.5 days a month (working smarter, not harder) That does include my 'retro' check from our new contract which is eligible for PS. I'll probably clear a PS check of at least $40 grand for this year (paid Feb 14, 2024). Also, since it's pensionable, I'll get 17% added to my 401k.

Assuming the current projections hold (both greater economy and company projections), next year's PS check for the same work will easily be $60k+, plus 401k.

Originally Posted by 744ButtonPusher

so for the outlier high earning wide body captain, the delta plan would be a better take home deal, but I would venture to say that the average pilot would be better off under the UA plan, especially if they have other outside income that’s taxable.

Originally Posted by 744ButtonPusher

so for the outlier high earning wide body captain, the delta plan would be a better take home deal, but I would venture to say that the average pilot would be better off under the UA plan, especially if they have other outside income that’s taxable.