Forced Upgrade for New Hires ?
11-08-2023 | 09:07 AM
#181
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 558
Likes: 6
How many things seen is enough? We’re not flying DC-9’s in a non radar environment. Follow the FOM/FM and there really isn’t a ton of room for errors that will get you killed or violated. Maybe it’ll result in an embarrassing mistake here or there (IE an unneeded cx or divert). We have medlink, dispatchers that actually know what they’re doing, FODM, well written/thought out procedures. I saw more **** in 10 hours in the left seat at a regional where you have 0 support from the company, lackluster at best manuals/procedures, dispatchers actively trying to kill you, pilot pushing, etc. than I do in a year here.
The kids are going to be ok. We have excellent training and excellent LCP’s/IE’s.
and, again, we were already having people upgrade at one year and off probation. I’d rather they have the extra hours of “babysitting” than sleep 500 hours EWR-DEL and then hop in the left seat of an Airbus. Look at how “experience” helped with some of our high profile oopsies lately….
The kids are going to be ok. We have excellent training and excellent LCP’s/IE’s.
and, again, we were already having people upgrade at one year and off probation. I’d rather they have the extra hours of “babysitting” than sleep 500 hours EWR-DEL and then hop in the left seat of an Airbus. Look at how “experience” helped with some of our high profile oopsies lately….
11-08-2023 | 09:16 AM
#182
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
How many things seen is enough? We’re not flying DC-9’s in a non radar environment. Follow the FOM/FM and there really isn’t a ton of room for errors that will get you killed or violated. Maybe it’ll result in an embarrassing mistake here or there (IE an unneeded cx or divert). We have medlink, dispatchers that actually know what they’re doing, FODM, well written/thought out procedures. I saw more **** in 10 hours in the left seat at a regional where you have 0 support from the company, lackluster at best manuals/procedures, dispatchers actively trying to kill you, pilot pushing, etc. than I do in a year here.
The kids are going to be ok. We have excellent training and excellent LCP’s/IE’s.
and, again, we were already having people upgrade at one year and off probation. I’d rather they have the extra hours of “babysitting” than sleep 500 hours EWR-DEL and then hop in the left seat of an Airbus. Look at how “experience” helped with some of our high profile oopsies lately….
The kids are going to be ok. We have excellent training and excellent LCP’s/IE’s.
and, again, we were already having people upgrade at one year and off probation. I’d rather they have the extra hours of “babysitting” than sleep 500 hours EWR-DEL and then hop in the left seat of an Airbus. Look at how “experience” helped with some of our high profile oopsies lately….
11-08-2023 | 09:24 AM
#183
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,957
Likes: 0
There is significant risk on both ends of the spectrum and those risks can only be fully mitigated by each individual pilot. The company is actively addressing the risk on the bottom end with additional supervision and training. By treating some nebulous amount of experience as a panacea we are, as individuals, not addressing or even admitting the risk that comes with experience as well. Look at the accident rate based on total hours flown- it’s high on the very low end and similarly high on the high end.
11-08-2023 | 09:32 AM
#184
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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 399
Likes: 49
see above, not gonna get the 100 hrs of OE. Normal OE unless identified to be trained under 9-K, which is not being utilized right now.
11-08-2023 | 09:36 AM
#185
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Joined: Dec 2016
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Why, they come off probation as soon as soon as they start captain training, so worst case of failing upgrade is they go back to being an FO.
what extra training and supervision? No one is currently going to be trained under 9-K which is the accelerated pilot program, meaning no one who is accepting captain positions right now are required to get the 100 hrs of OE.
see above, not gonna get the 100 hrs of OE. Normal OE unless identified to be trained under 9-K, which is not being utilized right now.
what extra training and supervision? No one is currently going to be trained under 9-K which is the accelerated pilot program, meaning no one who is accepting captain positions right now are required to get the 100 hrs of OE.
see above, not gonna get the 100 hrs of OE. Normal OE unless identified to be trained under 9-K, which is not being utilized right now.
I think you’re talking about the Vacancy Capt bids(that went to probation pilots), the bids that went to the new hire class will have to be trained under 9-K, won’t they????
11-08-2023 | 10:11 AM
#186
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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 399
Likes: 49
No, the company can choose which provision they are trained under, either the normal 500 hr (any aircraft) at UA and off probation OR 9-K (350 hrs in type at UA). As of right now, the company has not elected to train anyone under 9-K.
11-08-2023 | 01:46 PM
#187
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,599
Likes: 205
From: 787
I do realize it...and it informs my decisions. I really enjoy the "crack." On the rare occasion that they need me to occupy a seat, I drive in, do part of a preflight, don't de-ice, don't get delayed on the ground, don't get re-routed, don't wonder where the hotel shuttle is...it's pretty cushy.
I have seen the rot caused by years of WB FO. I have witnessed the Type ride failures of 25 year United pilots…..WBFO does not make you ready to be a United Captain
11-08-2023 | 01:51 PM
#188
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,599
Likes: 205
From: 787
Why, they come off probation as soon as soon as they start captain training, so worst case of failing upgrade is they go back to being an FO.
what extra training and supervision? No one is currently going to be trained under 9-K which is the accelerated pilot program, meaning no one who is accepting captain positions right now are required to get the 100 hrs of OE.
see above, not gonna get the 100 hrs of OE. Normal OE unless identified to be trained under 9-K, which is not being utilized right now.
what extra training and supervision? No one is currently going to be trained under 9-K which is the accelerated pilot program, meaning no one who is accepting captain positions right now are required to get the 100 hrs of OE.
see above, not gonna get the 100 hrs of OE. Normal OE unless identified to be trained under 9-K, which is not being utilized right now.
you can still be terminated for failing rides and doing poorly in IOE whether you are on probation or not…..trust me.
11-08-2023 | 02:28 PM
#189
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,957
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I would rather sit in the right seat for a 500 hour wonder that came from an RJ and spent those 500 hours flying in the United system than sit in the right seat for someone who hasn’t seen a domestic leg or stayed awake for an entire flight in 15 years. I have flown with both and I would pick the newbie every single time.
i haven’t needed/cared about bidding freezes, would a WBFO that goes NBFO not be able to upgrade for two years?
11-08-2023 | 02:34 PM
#190
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,599
Likes: 205
From: 787
100%.
I would rather sit in the right seat for a 500 hour wonder that came from an RJ and spent those 500 hours flying in the United system than sit in the right seat for someone who hasn’t seen a domestic leg or stayed awake for an entire flight in 15 years. I have flown with both and I would pick the newbie every single time.
i haven’t needed/cared about bidding freezes, would a WBFO that goes NBFO not be able to upgrade for two years?
I would rather sit in the right seat for a 500 hour wonder that came from an RJ and spent those 500 hours flying in the United system than sit in the right seat for someone who hasn’t seen a domestic leg or stayed awake for an entire flight in 15 years. I have flown with both and I would pick the newbie every single time.
i haven’t needed/cared about bidding freezes, would a WBFO that goes NBFO not be able to upgrade for two years?
Correct that gives you a bidding freeze.
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