It’s impossible to say, but *right now* that’s a bit low TT and PIC. But if we do hire a few hundred this year, 2500 next year, and other majors and legacies pick up hiring next year, and there aren’t any more Spirit pilots to steal I’m sure the bar will drop down where that is competitive again. But there are also factors at play like whose regional you fly for that you didn’t mention.

 

Fly your butt off. Accumulate TPIC just as fast as you can. Load up your schedule to the extent that your regional CBA permits -actual block time, not soft time. Every extra month you take puts 200 people ahead of you on the seniority list. At this point that will do you more good than anything else. Mentoring and union work all need to be secondary/tertiary to getting flight hours. In the interim, those “junior FOs” Will be getting off probation and be just another FO.

 

Unless you’re at Spirit you’re going to need more hours. There are far more competitive people than you in line for interviews right now. That doesn’t mean it won’t happen, but you are on the low end of the civilian spectrum for hiring. You’ll be higher up there soon and hopefully it’s a fast as possible. Good luck!

 

there might be “far more” competitive applicants out there, but that doesn’t mean they won’t get called. I got my CJO and I’m pretty low time, 0 TPIC and F9.

Just apply update network hit job fairs and see what happens. Maybe leave your regional while you’re at it.

I feel for the non-NK guys looking to better their lives. I understand the position NK is but I would feel pretty jaded if my entire application group (ie, regional, JetBlue) was getting shafted because they don’t fall under this “hire all NK” clause.

 

It’s more complex than that - largely driven by seniority.

When the merger fell through, most of the senior CAs were telling the FOs they flew with to put out apps for the legacies. Their rationale was that there weren’t going to be any upgrades for a long time and furloughs were quite likely. And the senior FOs for the most part didn’t have that much to lose. Sure, some would have to give up some 401k, and they’d lose pay that first probationary year, but second year legacy pay was roughly equal to what they’d be making at fourth year NK pay, and after that they’d be money ahead to make the jump. Besides, by going elsewhere that would be one less junior FO facing furlough. The CAs weren’t going themselves, of course, because they were not just on CA pay, but were on 4to12 year CApay, and probationary FO was a h€LL of a pay hit, not to mention starting at the bottom of the seniority for QOL.

So a lot of FOs took that advice, then came bankruptcy(cies) and the threat became reality. Furloughs were going to hit QOL for all but the most senior FOs and Displacements were going to hit even the junior CAs. So suddenly the opportunity cost to jump to a legacy - even for the junior CAs - became less.

Now if Chapter 11 becomes Chapter 7 (and we hope it won’t but hope ain’t been doing well at NK for a couple of years), more very senior highly experienced guys are going to be on the market, because their seniority will become worthless. It’s a big hit for them if it happens, far worse than it has been for most of the NK people previously hired who were relatively junior.

So if you mean by “getting shafted” having to compete against a lot of people with a lot of 121 A320 time, yeah it’ll happen, not just because ALPA legacies are giving them a break, but because others will be competing against a very experienced and highly competitive group, even moreso than the earlier NK hires.

 

Very well said!

I am a 9 year NK CA jumping ship to a legacy, and that is exactly how it all went down. A few years ago I watched a lot of FOs leave while those around my seniority in the left seat stayed put, and now we are all bailing.

We will likely see this process repeat with Jetblue and Frontier pilots in the coming years.

 

I don’t see an entire group getting shafted.” A few thousand pilots at another ALPA carrier are in a position where they don’t know if they’ll have a future and our contract helps them out a bit. I’d rather see people coming over from a place that might be gone by the end of the year than come over from regionals and F9, B6, etc where they have a bit more stable footing. 21-R is there for a reason, and we are still taking pilots from other carriers as well as the military. When hiring does get through the NK applicants I hope we gut the AA wholly-owned regionals first. Make your competitor spend money as much as possible.

 

The alpa brotherhood 21R stuff is a red herring. It is in United's clear self interest to 1) make life for spirit as hard as possible 2) take the biggest advantage of a huge reservoir of suddenly available talent. This isn't a handout to the NK pilots, it's UA opportunism.

 

BS. UALPA has a long history of helping Pan Am, Eastern, and other ALPA pilots during times of distress get hired at United. Does it help that UA needs many pilots? Of course it does. As a United pilot I am excited that many Spirit pilots are coming to United. Many of these pilots walked the walk when they successfully struck Spirit in a brilliantly organized action. All of these pilots from these other airlines have strengthened United and our pilot group.

 

VVVVVVV

Especially in the case of Pan Am, it wasn't so much about "helping", it was simply an opportunity for UAL to quickly take over the Europe/Pac rim.

Especially for those that were "absorbed" and got to retain certain things, vice those that weren't.