Originally Posted by BlueScholar

There's a little bit of a difference between being forced to a plane they don't like or commute to a base for a few months versus be forced to sign for an aircraft before they are ready for that responsibility. You're talking about preference, we're talking about safety of flight and being set up to fail in training.

Originally Posted by GoCats67

The 8 ball has been getting "forced" into assignments since the beginning of time!! To a lessor extent every single new hire is "forced" into something. I mean after all we haven't offered 756, 777, or 787 Captain slots yet, so everybody is being "forced" to chose something other than those! Every New Hire is always forced to choose from whatever Manpower Planning wants to offer that week from their pool of unfilled assignments.

Depending on when you were hired your New Hire assignment came with a freeze that had varying degrees of just how "frozen" you were. When I was hired you got a freeze for 2 years. The only way out of the "freeze" was to bid from S/O to F/O or F/O to Captain. So everypilot that got assigned an F/O slot was "frozen" for 2 years in that airplane and seat as there was no way you were going to be able to have the seniority to hold Captain within 2 years.

In my class the bottom portion of the class was "forced" into 727 S/O. So, we got to have the exciting experience of plumbing the 727. Our reward was that we could bid up to the 756, DC-10, 777 or 747 FO seat in our first 2 years (if seniority permitted) while all the folks who took the F/O slots were "forced" to stay in that seat for 2 years.

So, we have pilots that are getting forced into new hire assignments every week, sometimes that is a Captain assingment sometimes it is not. Whatever the New Hire assignments are, some will be happier than others, but those that are not happy are definitely dealing with the Webster's Dictionary definition of a First World Problem!! If anybody didn't know that this was how the system worked and is surprised that they don't get to pick and choose whatever they want, they should not be here.

Complain all you want (after all we are pilots), but don't be surprised when us old folks tell you that is the way it has always been, always will be, and to "get off my lawn!"

Originally Posted by Guppydriver95

Yep. This is completely different. Which is why Kirby wanted it so much. New guy straight to the left seat has a much higher probability of training issues than going to the right seat of a bus or guppie. We’ve actually had our first cases of newbs being fired during initial training for Captain bids.

Originally Posted by Guppydriver95

Yep. This is completely different. Which is why Kirby wanted it so much. New guy straight to the left seat has a much higher probability of training issues than going to the right seat of a bus or guppie. We’ve actually had our first cases of newbs being fired during initial training for Captain bids.

Originally Posted by Race Bannon

Clarification please. Were they forced into it, or did they bid it?

Since you seem to have the inside scoop

Originally Posted by TOGALOCK

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but please explain. New hires are still training as FOs and any new hire awarded a captain bid hasn’t, and won’t, start training as captain for at least 10 more months. So, are you saying that we’ve sunk so far to the bottom of the barrel for new hires that they can’t even pass the FO training? Or, are you saying that they are being judged differently in FO training because they have a pending captain bid?

Originally Posted by Guppydriver95

The one I’m referring to did not bid it.

Originally Posted by Guppydriver95

without getting too much into the weed,let’s just say what’s coming through TK isn’t the same as it once was. Of the 6200 or so hired in the last few years, a little over 4000 remain. That’s alarming. Some are training issues, some are disciplinary, but it’s a red flag either way.

Originally Posted by Guppydriver95

Of the 6200 or so hired in the last few years, a little over 4000 remain. That’s alarming.

Originally Posted by 11atsomto

Specifically to TOGALOCK's question. To the best of your ability do you feel it would have been the same outcome if the individual was not awarded a CA in INDOC? In other words did they fail as an FO full stop?, or did they fail as an FO whose happening to be upgrading in a year?
Of course officially there SHOULD NOT be a difference, but I would expect the TK instructors to have at least some type subconscious bias.

Really are you saying that of the 35% of the people hired in the last few years (curious about precise time) are no longer on property. That seems incredibly High. Thats like Spirit and JetBlue like turnover........