December 13, 2012... Mandatory Exits begin
12-21-2011 | 03:14 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,213
Likes: 14
From: guppy CA
Economics dictates shedding of 1000 jobs. The bottom 1000 are furloughed. Economics causes 1000 furloughs.
No change to age 65, the company still furloughs bottom 1000.
Change to 65, the company furloughs bottom 1000.
The only difference is who the bottom 1000 pilots are. If the age stays 60, the company hires 1000, and they get furloughed. If it changes to 65, everyone gets stuck for 5 years at their current position on the list, and the bottom guys get furloughed again.
Age 65 controlled the names on a seniority list; it didn't cause the furlough.
No change to age 65, the company still furloughs bottom 1000.
Change to 65, the company furloughs bottom 1000.
The only difference is who the bottom 1000 pilots are. If the age stays 60, the company hires 1000, and they get furloughed. If it changes to 65, everyone gets stuck for 5 years at their current position on the list, and the bottom guys get furloughed again.
Age 65 controlled the names on a seniority list; it didn't cause the furlough.
Age 65 caused the pilot training pipeline to be shut down, eliminating 300 or so pilot jobs.
When all is said and done, absent age 65, UAL would likely have not furloughed a single pilot due to economic conditions. You've been around the industry long enough to know all of this. Why would you intentionally lie about it?
12-21-2011 | 03:32 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,887
Likes: 0
From: Guppy Capt.
And I am not a "complainer", but again people really think upping the retirement age had NOTHING to do with the furloughs?!
Oh yeah, then I will apply to the FAA, and "retire" from there when I am 80, or maybe 85...
12-21-2011 | 05:18 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 281
Likes: 0
From: Furloughed
Age 65 didn't give everyone 5 more years at the top. It paused everyone's careers for 5 years in the seat they were in at the time. Now the younger pilots are going to have to work to 65 to get to the point they would've been at when they reached 60.
This whole age 65 thing was one of the most selfish acts to ever take place in this industry. Pilots enjoyed upward movement their entire profession and then took that same movement, career potential, and opportunity away from every pilot below them. Bad economic times? So what? I don't care. Every pilot's career has good times and bad times, that group wasn't the only one to encounter them. You got handed a lame card at the end of the game, thats tough, but its life. Its not the first time and its not the last time it will happen to a pilot, but you can't just go take that money from the rest of the piloting profession and say that it was a just thing to do.
This whole age 65 thing was one of the most selfish acts to ever take place in this industry. Pilots enjoyed upward movement their entire profession and then took that same movement, career potential, and opportunity away from every pilot below them. Bad economic times? So what? I don't care. Every pilot's career has good times and bad times, that group wasn't the only one to encounter them. You got handed a lame card at the end of the game, thats tough, but its life. Its not the first time and its not the last time it will happen to a pilot, but you can't just go take that money from the rest of the piloting profession and say that it was a just thing to do.
12-21-2011 | 05:53 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 378
Likes: 0
From: Skeptical
"Taking care of those who follow, as those who have come before took care of me."
A play, in two acts:
Act 1: Allow outsourcing of domestic flying to a portfolio of regionals forever undercutting each other in a race to the bottom.
Act 2: Lobby hard for a 5 year extension of line flying, taking more from the system than anyone had before, all the while subjecting those just making it onto the mainline list to the further purgatory of furlough/financial and family ruin.
[exeunt]
A play, in two acts:
Act 1: Allow outsourcing of domestic flying to a portfolio of regionals forever undercutting each other in a race to the bottom.
Act 2: Lobby hard for a 5 year extension of line flying, taking more from the system than anyone had before, all the while subjecting those just making it onto the mainline list to the further purgatory of furlough/financial and family ruin.
[exeunt]
12-21-2011 | 06:36 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
From: 2172/1437
"Taking care of those who follow, as those who have come before took care of me."
A play, in two acts:
Act 1: Allow outsourcing of domestic flying to a portfolio of regionals forever undercutting each other in a race to the bottom.
Act 2: Lobby hard for a 5 year extension of line flying, taking more from the system than anyone had before, all the while subjecting those just making it onto the mainline list to the further purgatory of furlough/financial and family ruin.
[exeunt]
A play, in two acts:
Act 1: Allow outsourcing of domestic flying to a portfolio of regionals forever undercutting each other in a race to the bottom.
Act 2: Lobby hard for a 5 year extension of line flying, taking more from the system than anyone had before, all the while subjecting those just making it onto the mainline list to the further purgatory of furlough/financial and family ruin.
[exeunt]
12-21-2011 | 09:58 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 382
Likes: 0
From: Le Bus
Age 65 didn't give everyone 5 more years at the top. It paused everyone's careers for 5 years in the seat they were in at the time. Now the younger pilots are going to have to work to 65 to get to the point they would've been at when they reached 60.
This whole age 65 thing was one of the most selfish acts to ever take place in this industry. Pilots enjoyed upward movement their entire profession and then took that same movement, career potential, and opportunity away from every pilot below them. Bad economic times? So what? I don't care. Every pilot's career has good times and bad times, that group wasn't the only one to encounter them. You got handed a lame card at the end of the game, thats tough, but its life. Its not the first time and its not the last time it will happen to a pilot, but you can't just go take that money from the rest of the piloting profession and say that it was a just thing to do.
This whole age 65 thing was one of the most selfish acts to ever take place in this industry. Pilots enjoyed upward movement their entire profession and then took that same movement, career potential, and opportunity away from every pilot below them. Bad economic times? So what? I don't care. Every pilot's career has good times and bad times, that group wasn't the only one to encounter them. You got handed a lame card at the end of the game, thats tough, but its life. Its not the first time and its not the last time it will happen to a pilot, but you can't just go take that money from the rest of the piloting profession and say that it was a just thing to do.
12-22-2011 | 04:52 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 840
Likes: 0
Who gives a damn about 65 being the retirement age? IT'S A DONE DEAL. I was not for it. Now, why waste your breath on it? Let's move along and focus on important stuff like getting a fatter pay check and great working rules.
12-22-2011 | 07:11 AM
#40
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,088
Likes: 0
From: B757/767
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