Wrsofked

Guess the leaks are true after all. Can someone please post the complete scales CA/FO. I refuse to pay that other guy for his forum.

Ottolillienthal

Scabs are ok with anything. They'll take it anyway management wants to give it to them. Then, just so they can help keep the peace, they'll sell management's load of garbage to preserve their place in line at the top of the food chain.

We lost our retirements at CAL, saved the airline from certain doom-and-gloom, saved the CARP for over 42,000 employees (who still have it today), saved management's SERP retirement (who still has it today), and we got a frozen CPRP and haven't had a pay raise since CBA 97 (2001 end date), while other labor groups such as dispatchers have gotten a 30% pay raise.

Jeeeeze Louise..........This is NUTS!

Captain Bligh

I was in the crew room in IAH that fateful day when M.H. came in and put the pay rates out on the table for all to see and then implored everyone to "Please not write any of the numbers down..." What a horses hind end.

Maybe with any luck it will back fire this time. Rather than pilots prematurely voting yes on pay rates only, we'll collectively tell them to shove it based on this slap in the face. Banding the Airbus with the 757?!!! The top of the mountain just keeps getting smaller and smaller.

Captain Bligh

After re-reading this portion of Jay's position:

"Most troubling is that the net result of this leak is to potentially drive pilots to the very behavior that has proved to be damaging in the past. That is, to look at certain contract items out of context or independent of the rest of the contract. We must learn from history and recognize the importance of not repeating the mistakes of the past. How many times have we all heard how dangerous it can be, when evaluating a pilot contract, to look solely at the wage rate tables, for example? Our management has stuffed our V-files with this information before and I think we are all intelligent enough to recognize that in a contract with more than 20 sections and multiple LOA’s, context is essential."

Yet it's that same tactic, "certain contract items out of countext" that was used to sell contract '02 to the pilots. It became a one issue sales job, "Vote for this or loose access to lumpsum distributions."

The bottom line is that for most line holders, all the trip and duty rigs in Dubinsky's wild and wettest dreams, will hardly if ever come into play, unless a trip is canceled or of the lowest quality (read extreeeeemely junior) anyhow. So? For the vast majority of us PAY RATES rule the day, period.

Send it back.

Wrsofked

What did the leak say about lump sum/retro payments?

NIGHTFLY

AIP was announced August 2nd. Two and a half months later and we are still waiting on the TA which will still have to be approved by the JNC and the MEC (two weeks min). It's going to be well over three months before the pilot group sees anything. Really? It takes that long? I'm very surprised that there have not been more leaks. This whole process seems to be getting more complex every negotiating cycle. How about after we get a contract, we work on reforming the RLA? How about we negotiate raises for the years after contract expiration? What a cluster$&@?.

intrepidcv11

Beyond disgusted that D bags at both the company and ALPA think we should punt on DAL pay until 2014. They really go out of the way to p!ss you off at this airline.

Short Bus Drive

Those don't seem to be "Delta +1".....?

ChrisJT6

Kinda of premature to ask, but if the difference in WAGES and 401K/PDAP are the same...you win (tax advantage) on X% less pay and X% more PDAP company contrabutions in your fund...no?

I plan to live beyond age 65...I'd prefer more retirement than DALs contract.

CitationD

It's an excellent point and it's why we need to see the actual, whole TA before we decide. This contract could be "industry leading in the aggregate" with those rates IF everything else was strong enough. I guess we'll know eventually.