SpecialTracking

Yes, but didn't Pierce say he would be willing to correct the pay banding issue on the next contract?

SpecialTracking

Some airlines place an importance on salary while others will take less in an hourly rate in favor of work rules and benefits. Is salary a valid comparison between two pilot groups or should total compensation take precedence?

Anyone?

Regularguy

All this talk about the number of seats, 767-300, 737-800 and who knows what else.

Now you all know the difficulty in moving away from the "gross-weght and airspeed" formula which got "big jet" pilots their "big bucks" in the beginning.

You see the more load an airplane is capable of carrying and how far it can take it is the measure of productivity and potential revenue. This is/was the heart of our pay system. The rest is just personal prejudiced.

Now in the early 80s we did a comparison of a B747-100/200 verses a B737-200 JT8D-7 in productivity and revenue generation. The 737 pilots were sure their 4 and 5 leg days were equal to if not greater in productivity and revenue generation than a single 747 flown for the same number of hours. After analyzing every possible angle we could think of the 747 always won out. Additionally we discovered the 747 pilots actually received a lower percentage of the pilot pay in total than the 737 pilots did.

What it essentially comes down to is how far and at what cost can we fly a pound of revenue. This is why an old fuel burning tub like the 747-400 beats others, because it carries more weight a further distance than a 737-900 can and all with two to four pilots.

The 747 pilots are more productive and deserve a bigger share of the potential revenue of the airplane. Of course it's up to marketing to sell those potential pounds.

Of course many of you don't really care at all because it's not about gross weight and airspeed any more.

Regularguy

When UAL purchased the Pan Am Pacific division in the 80s the Pan Am pilots had traded their pay for work rules. While the PA pilots actual W2s were almost 20% less the a comparable UAL pilot their work rules actually made the pilot cost of operation greater than the higher paid UAL pilots.

Many of the "good" work rules still at UAL are a result of those PA pilots bringing their rest, reserve rules and such to UAL when they added their influence to the UAL MEC.

So the answer is YES work rules are a part of the total compensation differences between the two groups and must be included in any comparisons during the arbitration. It is often said that UAL CBA requires about 12% pilots to do the same work as the CAL CBA.

Somethings are priceless!

SpecialTracking

Bada........bing.

Ottopilot

Be careful when asking for more money for heavier aircraft. The company wants to replace heavy aircraft with similair seat lighter aircraft. Less fuel burn = more profit for them. The 757's are being replaced by similair seat lighter 737's. The 747's and 767's are going to be replaced (some and over time) with 787's and maybe the A350. Be careful what you ask for. See what the company is up to first and how it affects you down the road.

SONORA PASS

Maybe JP means that on the next contract he hopes to be working from the other side of the table. He would NEVER get elected as our MC or to the NC job from our joint UAL/CAL pilot group...

SP

SpecialTracking

Prophetic...

Freddriver5

Unfortunately, the myopic focus on fuel burn will bite our company in the a$$. It's not just a profit equation, it needs to be a capability equation as well. A Guppy on the NATS is a fish out of water. It may be useful elsewhere, but subbing it for a leg segment for which the airplane was not designed is just short sighted. The replacement of other airframes by the Guppy demonstrates the short term vision of this management team and a total disregard for the flexibility more capable airframes provide.

FAULTPUSH

Can't do better than ad-hominem attacks?

Scab: n. a worker who takes a striking worker's place on the job.

Save your bile for real scabs, instead of trying to place yourself on a holier-than-thou pedestal.