jsled

Yeah. Just wait till they farm out the 737s and A320s to Skywest and wet lease A380s from Emirates to fly our passengers. What will we do then?

Sled

A320

Not exactly true. Our pay banding has some paid less and some paid more. Try not to be so selective with the facts.

yoter83

Propeller Planes Come Back Amid High Fuel Prices : NPR

A good reason to include turboprops in scope coverage.

LCAL dude

Per September 2012 Check Airman meeting, all the 'Busses will be parked by 2015.

jsled

That was before the new plan was announced at the October 2012 Check Airman meeting.

Sled

CousinEddie

Quite possible given unpredictable economic events. Did hear that leases were extended on the 320 fleet (not sure how many and if 319s were even included) as far as 2020. Given that the MAX airplanes start showing up I believe in 2017, that could be about right. But the days of a civilized narrowbody cockpit in which to sit through a long westbound transcon will no doubt be over.

horrido27

Delta 2013 12yr Capt - JCBA 2013 yr Capt

A380.. over 86K no pay scale / $330.20
B747.. over 86K $254.74 / $234.78
B777.. over 86K $254.74 / $234.78
B787.. over 86K $244.04 / $234.78
A350.. over 86K no pay scale / $234.78
A330.. over 86K $240.62 / $234.78
B767.. over 86K $240.62-$213.22 / $234.78-$195.82
B757.. over 86K $213.22 / $195.82-$188.97
A321.. over 86K no pay scale / $188.97
B737.. over 86K $205.53-$204.47 / $188.97-$181.24
A320.. over 86K $197.29 / $188.97
A319.. over 86K $197.29 / $181.24
MD90.. over 86K $193.76 / $188.97
MD88.. over 86K $193.76 / $188.97
B717.. over 86K $183.98 / no pay scale

Um.. ok. So, tell me why a United Pilot would make a post like you did yet not back it up with "Facts"?

In 2014, our pay goes up but still lags Delta. Also, Delta (I believe..) goes to 15% B Fund Contribution.
In 2015 we get closer to Delta again.
In 2016 we finally surpass Delta. Oh, but wait. Delta's PWA in amendable in 2015 so by 2016 Delta may (probably) will have a new PWA with payscales that are higher than ours.
Of course, that would mean that 2016 we trail Delta (again).
Same with 2017.. 2018.. 2019.

Only good thing is that we'll probably have a new CBA sometime in 2019. Bad thing is, we'll get pennies to the the dollar in Retro.. and we'll still be behind Delta~ But we'll be getting closer!


Seriously, it's gotten to the point that it's ****ing sad that the UAL Airbus guys (mostly) are doing anything and everything they can to justify their "Yes" Vote.

Motch

PS> You are TECHNICALLY Correct. We are paid more than Delta in some categories. A380, A350 and A321.
You win.

CousinEddie

So the total value of the contract each year is calculated by considering only pay rates and B-fund contributions?

horrido27

^ No Sir..
It's the value of the whole. But that was not the question. A UAL 320 Pilot stated that my post was incorrect. So I posted the payscales.

So let me ask you this-
Do we agree that the pay is behind Delta? Simple Yes or No.

To me (a CAL Pilot) Pay was one of the CornerStones. It has failed.

This thread was about Scope. If you believe that Scope has Passed the CornerStone Test.. ok. To me, it has not.
It is concessionary from a Continental CBA Standpoint.
Is it better than United.. that is questionable.
It is better than Delta.. that is questionable.

One thing is for sure. At Delta, their Scope is tied in with the B717, which pays a decent rate. Our Scope is tied into a "mystery aircraft".
That will pay less than Delta's B717.
Unacceptable.

Work Rules- A few good things, many bad things and a few neutral. CornerStone.. Fail.
From many United guys I've spoken too, they are not too happy with the work rules either.

Last is Retirement and Insurance.
My Opinion, it is one area where the CornerStone was met. But then again, I do not have a frozen A Plan so I can not say if every CAL Pilot agrees on this CornerStone.

So..
After the 4 CornerStones, what do we have left.
LOA25- NO
LOA26- NO
Retro/Signing Bonus- NO

And all the little "gotcha's".
What I don't understand is this. We had Rally's, Picketing Events, a 99% Strike Vote.
"The Loan is Due"
"United Against Outsourcing"

What happened?!

Motch

CousinEddie

The total value of the contract as a whole lags Delta next year and exceeds it each year thereafter. If you really think that you can get a better deal by sending this thing back to the company and the NMB, go ahead. Thus far, UCH has been a tremendous disappointment in terms of financial and operational performance. If you think this outfit will do fine going forward with a cost structure significantly higher that that of the competition, good luck. I for one have little faith in any management ability to execute in this industry with a significant cost disadvantage in any area. The margins simply aren't there. IF we get a bunch more money injected into this thing to complete the cornerstones to your satisfaction, we can watch this outfit become an even slower and more lethargic competitor than it is now. I sure enjoyed UAL under the ESOP contract far more than I did under Contract 2000 (which lasted all of 2 years). I'll take a strong, competitive company with lots of movement over a weak, shrinking one any day. People forget than in the days before 9/11 UAL's loss estimates for 2001 were on track to exceed a billion dollars that year. 9/11 was simply a catalyst for the inevitable. If you believe this outfit can generate the "synergies" required to pay super premium contracts reference the competition, all I can say is been there done that. Good luck.