I am not an FMR, nor was I from peeps, but as far as I know, the FMRs process was semi-ab initio training. PE went to the colleges, and hired the "best and the brightest," all, I believe top 10% of their class, to become SOs. Don't know who paid for the primary training. They flew on the panel for a few years, and then went to a regional carrier to build front seat time. After a year or two, they came back to a front seat. This is not entirely different from a really smart individual going to the military after college to get training.

I have some issues with the fact that they continued to earn seniority while away at the regional, but it is what it is; water under the bridge.

My analysis is that because FMRs are pretty smart, intellectual, and driven (who else gets to the top 10% of their college class), they have tended to gravitate to management positions. It is worth mentioning that not all management guys are bad guys. As a matter of opinion, mine that is, most of the management guys on the CAL side are pretty good guys. I've met a few from the UAL side, and most of them are pretty good guys also.

As for Future Managerial Rube, somebody has to be in management, and someone has to deal with the small percentage of pilots who can't hit their you know what with both hands, can't manage a cockpit, can't remember to get to work, can't stay off the bottle, or whatever. I've been at CAL for over 25 years, and have one or two unpleasant conversations with a management type. Most of the time, I let them know what I want/need, and usually they help me get it. Sometimes they explain why I can't have it, and that is OK too.

 

All of the FMRs are way too senior, somewhere North of 1000 to be a Flight Manager.

I find it interesting that you take a group about which you clearly know NOTHING (FMRs), and hold them up as an objects of ridicule.

 

Dave, the history of the various CAL pilot groups is difficult to follow even if you worked there and just short of impossible if you didn't. The term "FMR" obviously doesn't make any more sense to you than the term "570" does to most LCAL pilots. While the acronym might have been unfortunate, FMRs were simply low time pilots fresh out of school who were sent to the commuters to build time before they were brought back to mainline PE. Many PE pilots had collateral jobs, yet really weren't management. Think of it like being in the military where you had a ground job in addition to flying. The majority of FMRs are great guys and girls. The reason they are frequently spoken of so disparagingly is our lead negotiators for C97 (Jackson Martin) and the concessionary C02 (Tom Stivala) were both FMRs who went to management almost immediately after the contracts were negotiated. While Stivala is more recent and the wound is fresher, Martin went to work opposing us in grievances and negotiations, and has done much more damage. When we've had a dispute, Martin has been able to say he knows the intent because he negotiated the contract, thus cutting the union off at the knees. It got so bad the term "Martinized" actually came into use within the union. One good thing about the JCBA is it takes "Martinization" off the table. I got hired a decade after the FMR program, so even I don't fully understand LCAL's history.

 

I was pointing out that we also have equavalent FMR's on the UAL side. I do indeed know very little of the CO side. Before now, I had never even heard the term.

Objects of ridicule on the UAL side? Absolutely! Instead of calling them FMR's here, we just call them SCABS.

 

Why even mention FMR and SCAB in the same sentence? They are not even remotely similar.

As for the Flight Managers (baby CPs), the ones selected at CAL are a pretty nice group of pilots, and have always been very helpful.

 

Some who know the actions of TS will beg to differ.

 

No, you don't. Reread my post. We had FMRs hired in the late 80s the vast majority of whom are now just line pilots. We have Flight Managers (FOs) similar to what you've got at LUAL. We have interns who aren't on the seniority list and have no promise of employment, similar to what you probably have. None of those groups are scabs.

 

Schindler's List guy here...to the original poster's question

I retained my date of hire at COEX (for pass travel etc..) when it was a WOS of CAL. 9/96. My hire date at CAL is 5/05 instead of the 02/02 date it was supposed to be, due to 9/11 and the furloughs back from CAL to COEX now XJET. The MOU was take it or leave it for the date of transfer.

But like others have said, the lists of each respective airline are complete and the final SLI will determine who falls where.

 

Schindler's List? WOS of CAL?

 

Schindler's List was a slang term used to describe the "saved" 118 total number of pilots that received the last "Flow Through" credits (except for payscale - pay was reverted to 5 year COEX Contract '97 pay until CAL 2002 rates caught up as opposed to the 10 year Captain rate most had at the time of flow-over - this was contrary to the prior flow through arrangement but was changed per the MOU) although roughly 30 passed on the guaranteed flow over before hiring began in 2005.

There is still bad blood around that entire deal, namely the P.I.G's who were the Preferential Interview Group, who lost all benefits of the flow over but the pref hire status. In reality there were over 300 in the list and an artificial dividing line was placed at the last pilot to complete both his CAL Interview and Sim Ride, the 118 were born, which was totally random in reality due to the company limiting when they were interviewing and offering sim rides and off the streets had priority over pool interviews from COEX. There were 3 ways to get into the hiring pool at the time, be the top 110, interview/sim in, or 2 year RJ PIC..but with the 3:1 ratio Off the street, most of us drowned in the pool at COEX and had to wait until the MOU was agreed upon. The Schindler's List guys/gals then went first to CAL when hiring began.

WOS - Wholly owned subsidiary prior to the IPO