Oh, that's why the company just lost 2 of it's earliest post-merger major grievances regarding profit sharing and may have to pay UAL-ALPA an amount equal to or even greater than the 2011 CAL profit sharing and why Capt. Pierce was publicly humiliated and asked to leave the court room, and I don't suppose the apparent lack of success could have anything to do with having to fight the internal back-stabbing undertaken by the CAL-MEC which is the basis for the second grievance which the company and Pierce just lost. Basically Pierce was trying to end run the 3 way negotiations and screw UAL-ALPA and let's not forget how CAL-ALPA forced pay banding the 767-400 with a 747-400 by threatening to walk out on negotiations indefinitely


And how 'bout

- a real day of classroom training and pay for Sabre instead of online nonsense.
- iPad training to be introduced post fact.
- extended time and pay for online classes
plus numerous other safety syllabus issues like engine out procedures.


What's really amazing is how much CAL pilots have put up with and how long it's going to take to get the lunacy under control. What part of the pilot group thought training online at home was an ok. idea? I know, you'd rather do it on your time at home than in a classroom . . . I get it . . . I don't agree with it though. And, I'll go on record right now that I think the company will end up paying UAL-ALPA for violating the UPA with System Bid 14-02 as there is a grievance filed just last month that will take some time to work it's way through.

 

Yes all true....

But don't forget the value of all those steak dinners, fancy boxes, fancy hats, fancy photos etc.... what are they;... and what were they worth to the LUAL pilots over the last 10 years as you suffered thru the furloughs, pay cuts, loss of retirement $$$, career stagnation, etc... Just saying those petty items / entitlements are worthless.

What's more important? Those days are all gone. Just like the work from home jobs at Yahoo that probably were inefficient.

Scruffy CAL made money and grew over the last 10 years.

I'd take that over the "fancy sheet"....

 

The two are not related. The choice is not a paycheck or a classy welcome.
I do remember the first day of class. UA made you feel very welcome. It was classy. Treating people with dignity and respect goes a long way to demonstrating class. UA corporation maybe scummy. But the new hire people made you feel welcome.

 

I need a good place to work, but before I need jewelry, classy anything, I need W2. Anything that costs money that is done for the pilot takes away from W2. Management couldn't care less what any pilot or all pilots make, it only cares about cost.

 

missing the point for your own justification?

Both sides get wings and retirement recognition... the delivery is the point that goes to the culture....

The CAL guys JCBA culture was FUPM.... IOW, treat me scrappy just pay me... the UAL guys wanted work rules and protections...

And the CAL guys justification for voting no on the JCBA was "you don't know CAL management". However, they had no idea how we got what we got and more importantly, how we were going to get a better contract after voting no. Finally, if management violates the contract anyway, then it goes to the CAL pilot mentality... of treat me crappy.. just pay me...

The CAL guys have an opportunity here to take the UAL pilot culture and make it work for them....

Have you worked both sides... ?

 

Joe, respectfully, you don't know what you think you know. Further, what you do know is incomplete and biased. I realize its en vogue to believe that the UAL MEC has been a white knight in all this battling Pierce and his evil company sychopant minions, but there was/is plenty of bad behaviors perpetrated by all parties going back to the very beginning of all this. You are naive to believe otherwise. Please stop with the righteous indignation sanctimony.

 

Great thread.

Just one example of how we must change stuff, at EWR, I stand in front of the gate agent before boarding. I say, Hi. the agent says, Hi. I say, Well?

Check the security sheet and sign us off? She says, oh, yeah. Basic stuff, and there is going to be a lot of it. Like was said earlier, at L-UAL, we follow the rules, mostly for good reason.

Enforce the contract, insist on it.

 

First off you don't know what I think I know. Second, your post is typical of why I stopped posting and why this will be my last on this thread. You post no facts that anyone can verify and attack the poster. APC225 posted no facts, but chose to impugn the entire UAL pilot group as weak. I started this thread with 3 stories 2 of which I have personal and intimate knowledge of, and you are not refuting or discussing any of them or why you feel their is or is not a cultural difference. Your attack is simply personal and is doing exactly that which you accuse me of . . . "righteous indignation."

Provide facts and I will apologize for anything of which I have misspoken.

AND

you hide behind anonymity at least in this post. Why not contact me personally with the "facts", and set me straight. You'll find I'm actually a very reasonable individual and not prone to sudden judgement.

PeckJA at aol dot com

 

You miss the point completely. We are not talking about chump change here. I know FOs at CAL who have made just under 200K for the past 10 years, I know Captains at CAL who have made over 250 for the past several years. All the while your A320 guys were taking it in the shorts. The rest of your pilots, while not as bad, were taking it in the shorts also. I still ask, how do you pay for your child's college with all the stuff that you United guys seem to hold so dear.

BTW,I like all the work rules as much as the next man, but I just can't make a bank deposit with that stuff. No matter how you slice the pie, if the company prices a particular work rule out at $10.00 per flight hour, that is $10/hour less that I make.

By the time that all the work rules kick in, I will have taken a pay cut under this new UPA. Even with the raise next January, it will still be a pay cut. My QOL will be better, but nevertheless, my pay will be less. Not whining by the way, just stating fact. And this illustrates one of the vast cultural differences, we went for the money, and you went for the work rules.

 

Joe,

Your post reeks of the standard CAL sucks, UAL is better. The arrogance is truly staggering. I'll echo Lerxst, "righteous indignation"

If a CAL pilot came on here said the same about UAL, they would be blasted from all sides and labeled a scab. period. I read it all the time on the "other" forum...(where there are no scabs)

but thanks for coming back to APC, throwing a grenade and bailing.