Originally Posted by Sunvox

Contact Capt. Dalton, JFKFO for a first hand version.

And, I'm glad to hear the CAL brothers are fighting the seat conflict, but that doesn't change the "tenor" of the issue or the response of Capt. Bowers to be so impolitic nor the glaring misread of the contract that will most certainly be found largely in favor of ALPA once the issue of a "no showing" cabin passenger is resolved. There is a HUGE difference between assigning the business-first seat after all coach is sold out versus the issue of MOVING a business-first customer after coach sold out and then someone in coach no showed. I'm no lawyer, but I am sure the negotiators did not mean "the last seat assigned in business-first" over the last seat assigned on a full airplane, full in coach and business.



If these stories are stepping on the toes of CAL pilots, then please accept my apologies. It was not my intent to put anybody down, but rather to say that we can and should stand up for our contractual rights ALWAYS. Contrary to remarks above, it has been my experience that VERY few UAL pilots will EVER waive contractual rights. In fact, in my first week at UAL at a meeting in ORD with several hundred pilots, I made some inane remark in public based on my commuter experience about "going the extra mile for a great company" and I was soundly put down by several pilots who explained how it was NEVER ok to waive our hard fought contractual rights and since that time I can not count the dozens of times when I have expensed cabs, walked to a new hotel, refused an assignment, and sat while watching a plane pull away without me or the captain because our proper dead-head seats were not made available. I just had a sense that that culture is less prevalent at CAL and I hope we can agree that IF the UAL culture proves to be "tougher" that the CAL brethren will look at that as a positive and not a negative.

Originally Posted by Sunvox

First off you don't know what I think I know. Second, your post is typical of why I stopped posting and why this will be my last on this thread. You post no facts that anyone can verify and attack the poster. APC225 posted no facts, but chose to impugn the entire UAL pilot group as weak. I started this thread with 3 stories 2 of which I have personal and intimate knowledge of, and you are not refuting or discussing any of them or why you feel their is or is not a cultural difference. Your attack is simply personal and is doing exactly that which you accuse me of . . . "righteous indignation."

Provide facts and I will apologize for anything of which I have misspoken.

AND

you hide behind anonymity at least in this post. Why not contact me personally with the "facts", and set me straight. You'll find I'm actually a very reasonable individual and not prone to sudden judgement.

PeckJA at aol dot com

Originally Posted by liquid

Joe,

Your post reeks of the standard CAL sucks, UAL is better. The arrogance is truly staggering. I'll echo Lerxst, "righteous indignation"

If a CAL pilot came on here said the same about UAL, they would be blasted from all sides and labeled a scab. period. I read it all the time on the "other" forum...(where there are no scabs)

but thanks for coming back to APC, throwing a grenade and bailing.

Originally Posted by Poppy

By the time that all the work rules kick in, I will have taken a pay cut under this new UPA. Even with the raise next January, it will still be a pay cut. My QOL will be better, but nevertheless, my pay will be less. Not whining by the way, just stating fact. And this illustrates one of the vast cultural differences, we went for the money, and you went for the work rules.

Originally Posted by Dave Fitzgerald

Great thread.

Just one example of how we must change stuff, at EWR, I stand in front of the gate agent before boarding. I say, Hi. the agent says, Hi. I say, Well?

Check the security sheet and sign us off? She says, oh, yeah. Basic stuff, and there is going to be a lot of it.

Originally Posted by Poppy

This is oh so true. A while back on a different thread, a U guy accused us CAL guys of living in double wides. I mentioned back that my W2 was probably at least 50% higher than my counterparts at UAL. My post was accused of being a childish rant!

IMHO most of the pilots on both sides are very much alike. We will ultimately blend our cultures as has always happened when two groups merge. The notion that one culture OWNS the righteous, good, holy, superior position, and that the other, when they leave their double-wides and color TVs are a bunch of uneducated rubes is simply silly.

Originally Posted by liquid

Joe,

Your post reeks of the standard CAL sucks, UAL is better. The arrogance is truly staggering. I'll echo Lerxst, "righteous indignation"

If a CAL pilot came on here said the same about UAL, they would be blasted from all sides and labeled a scab. period. I read it all the time on the "other" forum...(where there are no scabs)

but thanks for coming back to APC, throwing a grenade and bailing.

Originally Posted by Tony Nelson

Okay, we get it, you have a big W2. Good on you.

Originally Posted by Sunvox

I didn't say anything about "CAL sucks". I said there is a cultural difference. To my knowledge I am the only person on this forum who has ever publicly apologized and reversed their opinion based on others arguments. If you think I am putting down CAL culture and that the culture I described is not accurate then explain to me how I am wrong, but so far all the evidence I have seen says CAL has a common culture of trying not to "rock the boat" in day to day operations.

How's this for a 4th anecdote demonstrating cultural differences.

Maintenance: "We won't be able to fix that right now."

L-CAL pilot: "Forget it then. We'll write it up on the way."

Spoken over the radio, and I was listening personally. Very, very few UAL pilots would ever say something like that on the radio. Is that a-typical for CAL? I don't know, but it is one more anecdote I see telling me there are cultural differences. Is the UAL culture better? I have no idea. You tell me, if you're so worried about whose better because I'm not. I'm worried about protecting my contract as it is and my own butt, and at the same time moving this whole integration process as quickly forward as possible so I can get on with my career.