Enormous Cultural Gap.
03-13-2013 | 10:17 AM
#41
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OK, we get it you have work rules. Good on you!
BTW, you guys wax poetic about how wonderful your work rules are, and how they are so good that they are worth giving up money for. Now you sound just a little jealous.
I was not trying to rub anyone's nose in it, just trying to point out the holier than thou attitude on the part of some/many of the U posters here that wears a little thin. If you had taken a little time to read my entire post you might have notice a conciliatory gesture regarding the merging of the cultures. Of course that might be difficult-----can you have double wides in ORD??
BTW, you guys wax poetic about how wonderful your work rules are, and how they are so good that they are worth giving up money for. Now you sound just a little jealous.
I was not trying to rub anyone's nose in it, just trying to point out the holier than thou attitude on the part of some/many of the U posters here that wears a little thin. If you had taken a little time to read my entire post you might have notice a conciliatory gesture regarding the merging of the cultures. Of course that might be difficult-----can you have double wides in ORD??
Help me understand here....
You guys had (02) minimal work rules, and make more money. Also meaning, your time off is not always yours... or you can to work when you don't expect to... but you make more money....
What else does CAL bring to the table? I can think of the low number of MELs CAL pilots fly with whereas UAL pilots will operate with more....
What else?
03-13-2013 | 10:17 AM
#42
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You miss the point completely. We are not talking about chump change here. I know FOs at CAL who have made just under 200K for the past 10 years, I know Captains at CAL who have made over 250 for the past several years. All the while your A320 guys were taking it in the shorts. The rest of your pilots, while not as bad, were taking it in the shorts also. I still ask, how do you pay for your child's college with all the stuff that you United guys seem to hold so dear.
BTW,I like all the work rules as much as the next man, but I just can't make a bank deposit with that stuff. No matter how you slice the pie, if the company prices a particular work rule out at $10.00 per flight hour, that is $10/hour less that I make.
By the time that all the work rules kick in, I will have taken a pay cut under this new UPA. Even with the raise next January, it will still be a pay cut. My QOL will be better, but nevertheless, my pay will be less. Not whining by the way, just stating fact. And this illustrates one of the vast cultural differences, we went for the money, and you went for the work rules.
BTW,I like all the work rules as much as the next man, but I just can't make a bank deposit with that stuff. No matter how you slice the pie, if the company prices a particular work rule out at $10.00 per flight hour, that is $10/hour less that I make.
By the time that all the work rules kick in, I will have taken a pay cut under this new UPA. Even with the raise next January, it will still be a pay cut. My QOL will be better, but nevertheless, my pay will be less. Not whining by the way, just stating fact. And this illustrates one of the vast cultural differences, we went for the money, and you went for the work rules.
03-13-2013 | 10:20 AM
#43
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From: B756 captain
03-13-2013 | 10:22 AM
#44
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From: B756 captain
Help me understand here....
You guys have minimal work rules, and make more money. Also meaning, your time off is not always yours... or you can work when you don't expect you... but you make more money....
What else does CAL bring to the table? I can think of the low number of MELs CAL pilots fly with whereas UAL pilots will operate with more....
What else?
You guys have minimal work rules, and make more money. Also meaning, your time off is not always yours... or you can work when you don't expect you... but you make more money....
What else does CAL bring to the table? I can think of the low number of MELs CAL pilots fly with whereas UAL pilots will operate with more....
What else?
Aside from that, if you flew over your days, then it was your own fault, and often very profitable.
03-13-2013 | 10:31 AM
#45
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I mentioned good MX/low MELS on the CAL side...
What else?
03-13-2013 | 10:43 AM
#46
Peace Love Understanding
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From: Airbus
We also got the individual leg overs, which is new.
I don't feel for a second it was a bad merger. I'm pretty pleased overall.
03-13-2013 | 11:15 AM
#47
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From: Guppy Capt
03-13-2013 | 12:07 PM
#48
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From: UAL retired
As for your grievance comments, the great perceived injustice of the CAL system bid.
Have you contacted any of the 400+ UAL pilots working on the CAL side to find out if we're understaffed?
Called manpower planning at CAL?
Read the CAL contract?
The CAL side desperately NEEDS pilots, we have for years. Our reserve pilots work 90+ hours a month in the summer, rolled days off, max duty days, 7 days in a row etc... VJM bulletins ALL summer.
No one ever asked why we had the bid, just that the UAL pilots "deserve" those Captain seats, they belong to UAL. HUH? again does that make sense?
You either have an LEC rep or Grievance rep who likes to hear themselves talk, or someone is feeding you info they shouldn't be
Have you contacted any of the 400+ UAL pilots working on the CAL side to find out if we're understaffed?
Called manpower planning at CAL?
Read the CAL contract?
The CAL side desperately NEEDS pilots, we have for years. Our reserve pilots work 90+ hours a month in the summer, rolled days off, max duty days, 7 days in a row etc... VJM bulletins ALL summer.
No one ever asked why we had the bid, just that the UAL pilots "deserve" those Captain seats, they belong to UAL. HUH? again does that make sense?
You either have an LEC rep or Grievance rep who likes to hear themselves talk, or someone is feeding you info they shouldn't be
As for the bid grievance, I'm afraid you are missing the logic entirely. No one is questioning the need for pilots, and no one is saying UAL pilots "deserve" anything other than their contractual rights. What is in question is what rules govern any United Airlines pilot vacancy bid now that the UPA has passed.
25-A Amendable Date
This Agreement shall become effective on the date of signing hereof, shall continue in full force and effect through and including January 31, 2017, and shall renew itself without change each succeeding February 1st thereafter unless written notice of intended change is served in accordance with Section 6, Title I, of the Railway Labor Act, as amended, by either party hereto at least thirty (30) days but no more than two hundred seventy (270) days prior to January 31, 2017, or any year thereafter. The parties shall commence direct negotiations with respect to such notice no later than thirty (30) days following the delivery of such notice.
25-B Incorporation of Other Agreements
This Agreement and any Letters of Agreement and Memoranda of Understanding entered into by the parties after the date hereof constitute the sole and entire agreement between the parties while they remain in effect, and shall cancel all Agreements, Supplemental Agreements, Amendments, Letters of Understanding and similar related documents executed between the Company and the Air Line Pilots Association prior to the signing of this Agreement.
This Agreement shall become effective on the date of signing hereof, shall continue in full force and effect through and including January 31, 2017, and shall renew itself without change each succeeding February 1st thereafter unless written notice of intended change is served in accordance with Section 6, Title I, of the Railway Labor Act, as amended, by either party hereto at least thirty (30) days but no more than two hundred seventy (270) days prior to January 31, 2017, or any year thereafter. The parties shall commence direct negotiations with respect to such notice no later than thirty (30) days following the delivery of such notice.
25-B Incorporation of Other Agreements
This Agreement and any Letters of Agreement and Memoranda of Understanding entered into by the parties after the date hereof constitute the sole and entire agreement between the parties while they remain in effect, and shall cancel all Agreements, Supplemental Agreements, Amendments, Letters of Understanding and similar related documents executed between the Company and the Air Line Pilots Association prior to the signing of this Agreement.
NOW THEREFORE, the parties hereto agree as follows:
A General
A-1 This LOA contains the full understandings and complete agreement of the parties regarding the implementation of the terms of the Agreement and the conversion from two separate collective bargaining agreements and two separate flight operations to a single pilot group operating a single operation under a single Agreement.
A-2 Any disputes regarding this LOA that the Joint Implementation Team is unable to resolve shall be referred to a group of four, composed of the MEC Chairmen and two flight operations officials designated by the Company, and if the matter still cannot be resolved, to the dispute resolution procedure identified in Paragraph C of this Letter of Agreement
A General
A-1 This LOA contains the full understandings and complete agreement of the parties regarding the implementation of the terms of the Agreement and the conversion from two separate collective bargaining agreements and two separate flight operations to a single pilot group operating a single operation under a single Agreement.
A-2 Any disputes regarding this LOA that the Joint Implementation Team is unable to resolve shall be referred to a group of four, composed of the MEC Chairmen and two flight operations officials designated by the Company, and if the matter still cannot be resolved, to the dispute resolution procedure identified in Paragraph C of this Letter of Agreement
03-13-2013 | 01:36 PM
#49
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03-13-2013 | 01:55 PM
#50
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Joined: Oct 2010
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From: Retired
This is the most ridiculous thread I've yet seen on this board! Clearly the original author must be suffering from low self-esteem if he feels it necessary to slander the other group, in an effort to make himself feel better!
Neither group is superior to the other!
Neither group is superior to the other!
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