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Old 04-12-2013 | 10:26 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by Scott Stoops
My opinion doesn't count either, but I think you really should read up on the process, and actually read the opening letters.

There is no possible way that you can effectively merge Cap with Cap and F/O with F/O in the manner that I think you're advocating. The process agreement ensures that no pilot on either independent list will move ahead of the next adjacent pilot on said list regardless of what seat they actually hold currently. There will be no shuffling of the individual lists. I believe the LCAL opener is advocating merging Cap to Cap, etc in a slotting scheme that respects the individual lists. IMHO, this is a very unlikely outcome as it completely disregards ALPA merger policy (the components of which were basically left unmentioned in the LCal opening letter). Even before changes to ALPA merger policy after the Nic award (which is a major reset of ALPA merger policy), all of the most recent mergers included a slotting scheme that respected differences between aircraft brought to the merger.
In virtually ever merger several things are done on preparation for the actual SLI hearings. First seniority lists are verified by each side to insure that the dead, retired ect.. are not on the lists and each name is correct. Then the list is stove piped where each pilot is placed in the highest paying position they can hold. This prevents leapfrogging. Normally the lists used are based on a constructive date of merger which is normally the date the merger was made public so changes or upgrades after that have no effect.
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Old 04-12-2013 | 11:17 AM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by cadetdrivr
It's not a joke.

At the same time, it's only the Pre-Hearing statement. Each side can suggest anything---it's what the arbitrators determine fair that matters. Both sides are gonna have an entire week to present their case (starting with CAL on Monday) so this is just the start.

For UA pilots, the UAL Merger committee has posted the full UAL and CAL statements on their committee website (ual.alpa.org).
I guess my sarcasm didn't come through for you.

I'm familiar with the process-it's just that this is an extreme opening position, nothing moderate about it, and not likely to result in a safe, decent place to work in future combined ops if it were implemented. It's the latest kick in the nuts from the CAL side, just what we needed after all the JCBA delays and resultant lost $ (that's more sarcasm).
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Old 04-12-2013 | 11:35 AM
  #13  
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The LCAL position provides new relevance to the quote "Houston, we have a problem...."
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Old 04-12-2013 | 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by UASnake
I guess my sarcasm didn't come through for you.

I'm familiar with the process-it's just that this is an extreme opening position, nothing moderate about it, and not likely to result in a safe, decent place to work in future combined ops if it were implemented. It's the latest kick in the nuts from the CAL side, just what we needed after all the JCBA delays and resultant lost $ (that's more sarcasm).
What would you have the CAL merger committee propose? Let me guess, all CAL pilots stapled to the bottom? The CAL merger committee represents the pilots of Continental Airlines, not the combined lists of the two pilot groups.

I am quite sure your committee will propose some sort of extreme position as well, it just hasn't been made public yet.

I did like the bolded statement below, from your own MEC.




ISL Arbitration Hearings to be Held Next Week in Washington, D.C.




Starting Monday, the first in a series of arbitration hearings will take place in Washington, D.C. The meetings, scheduled for April 15-20, will be open to the public. Dress is business casual.

For those attending, please understand that next week's hearings will be primarily the L-CAL Merger Committee presenting its direct case. There will be no opportunity for public commentary during the hearing. Those attending the hearings are welcome as observers only, and decorum must be maintained throughout the hearings.

The United MEC Merger Committee will have its opportunity to present our direct case on May 11-15. Rebuttals will begin during hearings in June.

All of the hearings will be held at the Mandarin Oriental Hotel, 1330 Maryland Ave., SW, Washington, D.C. There will be signage indicating which meeting rooms have been designated for the arbitration hearings for each day.

We look forward to seeing those of you who choose to attend the hearings next week. There will be a daily posting of the meeting transcripts on the Merger Committee's Integrated Seniority List Information Central webpage. Transcripts of each day's hearing are expected to be posted on the "ISL Information Central" website each evening.
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Old 04-12-2013 | 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by liquid
I am quite sure your committee will propose some sort of extreme position as well, it just hasn't been made public yet.
FWIW, the UAL pre-hearing briefing has been published.

I'd be shocked if the CAL Merger Committee doesn't share both pre-hearing briefings in full (like the UAL committee did today for UA pilots) so everybody should see it soon enough via the normal channels.
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Old 04-12-2013 | 01:37 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by liquid
What would you have the CAL merger committee propose? Let me guess, all CAL pilots stapled to the bottom? The CAL merger committee represents the pilots of Continental Airlines, not the combined lists of the two pilot groups.

I am quite sure your committee will propose some sort of extreme position as well, it just hasn't been made public yet.

I did like the bolded statement below, from your own MEC.




ISL Arbitration Hearings to be Held Next Week in Washington, D.C.




Starting Monday, the first in a series of arbitration hearings will take place in Washington, D.C. The meetings, scheduled for April 15-20, will be open to the public. Dress is business casual.

For those attending, please understand that next week's hearings will be primarily the L-CAL Merger Committee presenting its direct case. There will be no opportunity for public commentary during the hearing. Those attending the hearings are welcome as observers only, and decorum must be maintained throughout the hearings.

The United MEC Merger Committee will have its opportunity to present our direct case on May 11-15. Rebuttals will begin during hearings in June.

All of the hearings will be held at the Mandarin Oriental Hotel, 1330 Maryland Ave., SW, Washington, D.C. There will be signage indicating which meeting rooms have been designated for the arbitration hearings for each day.

We look forward to seeing those of you who choose to attend the hearings next week. There will be a daily posting of the meeting transcripts on the Merger Committee's Integrated Seniority List Information Central webpage. Transcripts of each day's hearing are expected to be posted on the "ISL Information Central" website each evening.
Those attending the hearings are welcome as observers only, and decorum must be maintained throughout the hearings.

They don't want anybody laughing pierce and some of the cal reps. Wouldn't look good.

Last edited by Staller; 04-12-2013 at 01:40 PM. Reason: didn't want to hurt feelings - added happy face
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Old 04-12-2013 | 03:53 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by liquid

I am quite sure your committee will propose some sort of extreme position as well, it just hasn't been made public yet.
Not at all, actually. The LUAL proposal actually referenced the current ALPA merger policy extensively. Seems like a reasonable approach.

Scott
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Old 04-12-2013 | 04:06 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by Scott Stoops
Not at all, actually. The LUAL proposal actually referenced the current ALPA merger policy extensively. Seems like a reasonable approach.

Scott
Then post it. I have no access to your internal MEC publications.
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Old 04-12-2013 | 04:12 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by liquid
Then post it. I have no access to your internal MEC publications.
I think you'll see both very soon on the CAL side.
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Old 04-12-2013 | 06:42 PM
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Let me get my popcorn, this is gonna be interesting. I've been through a binding arbitration SLI and I wouldn't wish it upon anyone.

Good luck!
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