Today's LUAL SLI Presentation?
05-31-2013 | 06:24 AM
#451
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,282
Likes: 0
From: A320 Cap
your list has furloughed pilots, that may never come back, going ahead of active pilots.
Was in the Denver crew room the other day. Several pilots were welcoming back a CAL FO. I thought to myself, if it wasn't for us and our little regional airline, this guy would not be setting foot inside this Denver crew room. I guarantee you he would not be out flying a jumbo, he would be out looking for a JOB! Oh wait you downsized for this merger to happen, I know started back in 2000.
I thought people stopped using the word jumbo back in the 1970s? In another five years those airplanes will be what, 50-60, 70 years old??
BTW, your 777 lines in SFO are just awful! The days off are not there. I like my 737 don't want to fly a JUMBO! Get plenty of time off and don't have to fly so far away.
I say fence your jumbo forever, don't care. We can then fence our 737 captain upgrades and I will take my jumbo pay check. That way you can upgrade in your jumbo, but you better hurry your jumbo will soon be 50 years old.
Was in the Denver crew room the other day. Several pilots were welcoming back a CAL FO. I thought to myself, if it wasn't for us and our little regional airline, this guy would not be setting foot inside this Denver crew room. I guarantee you he would not be out flying a jumbo, he would be out looking for a JOB! Oh wait you downsized for this merger to happen, I know started back in 2000.
I thought people stopped using the word jumbo back in the 1970s? In another five years those airplanes will be what, 50-60, 70 years old??
BTW, your 777 lines in SFO are just awful! The days off are not there. I like my 737 don't want to fly a JUMBO! Get plenty of time off and don't have to fly so far away.
I say fence your jumbo forever, don't care. We can then fence our 737 captain upgrades and I will take my jumbo pay check. That way you can upgrade in your jumbo, but you better hurry your jumbo will soon be 50 years old.
05-31-2013 | 06:31 AM
#452
Straight Outta Map School
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
I decided to work for one of the "big 3" and fly a jumbo. You decided to fly guppies for a lower tier airline.
I guess you got lucky with the merger.
Katz's list is a joke based on nothing....our list is based on current merger policy.
Arbitrators historically ignore garbage arguments, so I guess we'll get our list.
We'll see...
I guess you got lucky with the merger.
Katz's list is a joke based on nothing....our list is based on current merger policy.
Arbitrators historically ignore garbage arguments, so I guess we'll get our list.
We'll see...
05-31-2013 | 06:35 AM
#453
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,282
Likes: 0
From: A320 Cap
My F/O and I had a discussion about this the other day. He was advocating for a DOH type situation. I simply told him, "You don't want that, and you don't want LUAL to propose that". He asked why, and I simply asked if he would feel the same if we had merged with USAirways.
In my opinion, it's not a valid argument to keep wanting to bend ALPA merger policy to whatever works best for your group in a particular merger. The point is to make the policy as fair as possible to cover ALL mergers, and then apply your list to it. LUAL's proposal was exactly that; based on the tenets of ALPA merger policy. Obviously, the arbitrator has the right to introduce other factors into the decision... that's written in the policy. But the LCAL list is based on nothing but children's playground rules- tit for tat until you run out of bodies. It has no basis on ALPA merger policy, which LCAL joined VOLUNTARILY. Yet still, I read Ben's missive and I see not one single word about WHY the LCAL list is fair and should be adopted. Just complaints about why LUAL's list, which we based on the policy you agreed to, isn't.
So I ask again, to any LCAL pilot. Assuming that your list is accepted, is this what you want the new ALPA merger policy to be? Because you sure didn't follow the old one.
05-31-2013 | 07:06 AM
#454
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 342
Likes: 0
I still await a LCAL answer to my question. Do you support the LCAL proposal as the "New ALPA merger policy"? If so, what is your plan for accepting an Alaska Airlines type merger?
My F/O and I had a discussion about this the other day. He was advocating for a DOH type situation. I simply told him, "You don't want that, and you don't want LUAL to propose that". He asked why, and I simply asked if he would feel the same if we had merged with USAirways.
In my opinion, it's not a valid argument to keep wanting to bend ALPA merger policy to whatever works best for your group in a particular merger. The point is to make the policy as fair as possible to cover ALL mergers, and then apply your list to it. LUAL's proposal was exactly that; based on the tenets of ALPA merger policy. Obviously, the arbitrator has the right to introduce other factors into the decision... that's written in the policy. But the LCAL list is based on nothing but children's playground rules- tit for tat until you run out of bodies. It has no basis on ALPA merger policy, which LCAL joined VOLUNTARILY. Yet still, I read Ben's missive and I see not one single word about WHY the LCAL list is fair and should be adopted. Just complaints about why LUAL's list, which we based on the policy you agreed to, isn't.
So I ask again, to any LCAL pilot. Assuming that your list is accepted, is this what you want the new ALPA merger policy to be? Because you sure didn't follow the old one.
My F/O and I had a discussion about this the other day. He was advocating for a DOH type situation. I simply told him, "You don't want that, and you don't want LUAL to propose that". He asked why, and I simply asked if he would feel the same if we had merged with USAirways.
In my opinion, it's not a valid argument to keep wanting to bend ALPA merger policy to whatever works best for your group in a particular merger. The point is to make the policy as fair as possible to cover ALL mergers, and then apply your list to it. LUAL's proposal was exactly that; based on the tenets of ALPA merger policy. Obviously, the arbitrator has the right to introduce other factors into the decision... that's written in the policy. But the LCAL list is based on nothing but children's playground rules- tit for tat until you run out of bodies. It has no basis on ALPA merger policy, which LCAL joined VOLUNTARILY. Yet still, I read Ben's missive and I see not one single word about WHY the LCAL list is fair and should be adopted. Just complaints about why LUAL's list, which we based on the policy you agreed to, isn't.
So I ask again, to any LCAL pilot. Assuming that your list is accepted, is this what you want the new ALPA merger policy to be? Because you sure didn't follow the old one.
05-31-2013 | 07:13 AM
#455
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
From: B737ca
I decided to work for one of the "big 3" and fly a jumbo. You decided to fly guppies for a lower tier airline.
I guess you got lucky with the merger.
Katz's list is a joke based on nothing....our list is based on current merger policy.
Arbitrators historically ignore garbage arguments, so I guess we'll get our list.
We'll see...
I guess you got lucky with the merger.
Katz's list is a joke based on nothing....our list is based on current merger policy.
Arbitrators historically ignore garbage arguments, so I guess we'll get our list.
We'll see...
Oh great one, I flew a heavy for our poor little second tier airline, and got paid more then you........
05-31-2013 | 07:14 AM
#456
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,415
Likes: 0
From: B-777 left
gettingbumped, I know the term "Relative" is getting overused and everyone on here has there definition of what it means. But, from most of the CAL guys I talk to, if you look al the CAL list on 5/10/10 and see what % you are that is where most people want to be when the list is published(+ or - 3%) UAL can do same with their list! Where the issue arises is the furloughed guys. If included, CAL guys move down about 7-10% on "Relative" list and thats the hang-up. We can debate here all day long why or why not they should be included with little success since we are on different sides of the fence for the next 2 more months!! I've tried to answer your ? as straight forward as I can since I've enjoyed the tone of your posts!! I agree with what you told the FO you flew with I just wish the system was set up better so we weren't fighting over the same ball at the playground!! I'm looking forward to all flying together someday!!(+ or- 3%)
05-31-2013 | 07:15 AM
#457
Peace Love Understanding
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,040
Likes: 0
From: Airbus
gettingbumped, I know the term "Relative" is getting overused and everyone on here has there definition of what it means. But, from most of the CAL guys I talk to, if you look al the CAL list on 5/10/10 and see what % you are that is where most people want to be when the list is published(+ or - 3%) UAL can do same with their list! Where the issue arises is the furloughed guys. If included, CAL guys move down about 7-10% on "Relative" list and thats the hang-up. We can debate here all day long why or why not they should be included with little success since we are on different sides of the fence for the next 2 more months!! I've tried to answer your ? as straight forward as I can since I've enjoyed the tone of your posts!! I agree with what you told the FO you flew with I just wish the system was set up better so we weren't fighting over the same ball at the playground!! I'm looking forward to all flying together someday!!(+ or- 3%)
05-31-2013 | 08:02 AM
#458
Banned
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 536
Likes: 0
If you look at the last contract, the UAL side is paying about 30% more for health insurance and 100% of Long Term Disability. Those two things wiped out the pay raise. Don't know what the cal guys were paying for these or what you got in terms of retirement contributions but I'm sure you were paying more and receiving less than UAL's. I don't think you can really claim superior pay for being a "second tier airline" just on hourly rate.
Last edited by Staller; 05-31-2013 at 08:18 AM.
05-31-2013 | 08:18 AM
#459
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 342
Likes: 0
05-31-2013 | 08:27 AM
#460
Banned
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 536
Likes: 0
What "Seniority" # or position can a furloughed pilot bid on the UAL pilot sen. list prior to 5/10/10? 100% I'm guessing, but there weren't any positions to bid correct? Again, not trying to change your opinion! However, if the +,- 3% isn't going to happen you don't have to get your underwear in a bunch, correct? And Syd you sound like a Peach to fly with!
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